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#33778 - 07/08/16 07:50 PM Wedges
TIMBEAL Offline
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Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
Wedges, I've on the past couple projects used some half round wedges for some through tenons, On my latest project I have included rectangular tapered wedges, at a 1:8 ratio. 3" to 4" in 8 inches of length on the 2 inch thick wedge. After watching this video a few days ago and seeing the failed wedge get sucked in the the mortice in failure, I decided to give the traditional wedge a go. Specifically the white pine wedge in the photo at the end of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgFXqcWn-hE

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#33779 - 07/08/16 07:51 PM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
TIMBEAL Offline
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Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
Here are some tenons we are working on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PzrhDhJgJM

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#33781 - 07/08/16 09:19 PM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
Dave Shepard Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alford, MA
Dutch barn? The wedges in the ones I worked on were 1" thick, and there were two per tenon.
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#33782 - 07/08/16 10:33 PM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
TIMBEAL Offline
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Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Maine
Hi Dave. No pegs through the post, just wedges on the outer side of the post, correct? Or did some do both pegs and wedges?

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#33783 - 07/09/16 02:45 AM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
Jay White Cloud Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
My partner just left for New York last week to finish part of the frame we are working on there with Tim Rau of Pleasant View Restorations. Tim specializes in "Dutch Barns." We have consulted on a few together and he is taking another one down now for restoration and resale. There aren't many of these left and he may keep this one too for himself as I think he has 2 of them already on his family's farm south of Albany.

There is much debate about the "wedge and peg" reasoning in these frames. The common understanding is the wedges are used to draw the large "anchor beam" tight into its receiving post and then the pegs further secure it fast. There is evidence that some are also draw bored as well as wedged (??) Some also are absent the pegs and only rely on the double wedges for securing them to the post...
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#33785 - 07/09/16 10:18 AM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
Jim Rogers Offline

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Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1607
Loc: Georgetown, MA, USA
In this video the engineers pulled on a tenon that has two wedges holding it, time around the 4 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/IhOmr_7Y5O8?list=LLTlsmrqf4gIEOif4A3S903g

Jim Rogers
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#33786 - 07/09/16 12:28 PM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
Dave Shepard Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alford, MA
Tim, all the one I worked on had pegs and wedges.

I met Tim, and his grandfather Everett, at the 2010 TTRAG.
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#33791 - 07/10/16 11:16 AM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
I will say Hello to Tim for ya...:)...when I see him next month for this raising...
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#33793 - 07/12/16 04:50 PM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
D Wagstaff Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 246
Mostly in the Dutch barns where this construction was employed, the so called ankergebint, both wedges and pegs got used, anyway historically. I don't know of an explanation for what seems a redundancy but in the stress testing videos I can say this, orienting the wedge to run parallel with the post doesn't seem as good an idea as a wedge or wedges that are pressing across the grain of the post though I admit to having done it that way myself. Also, and what I have never done, it doesn't seem pine or softwood is so compatible with this choice of joint. The wood used in the ankergebint construction is typically oak of none to high quality, usually from the farmland or local forest.


Edited by D Wagstaff (07/12/16 04:52 PM)

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#33796 - 07/12/16 06:52 PM Re: Wedges [Re: TIMBEAL]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Hello D.W.

I am not sure how many of these you have been in in the New York state area, but I would like to know (your rough estimate?) how many comparatively had wedges and trunnel compared to no trunnel and only wedges from the ones you have been in. I am speaking of only American examples for this frame type, and your comparative examples of "softwoods" to hardwoods...We see mainly softwoods in the New York area, and one that may well be Yellow Poplar that I haven't yet examined.

As for overall comparable compatibility...both vertical (mainly furniture) and horizontal (primarily timber framing) is done in softwoods...and not hardwoods...My rough estimate is probably something between 60% softwood vs 30% conservatively (thereabouts) when all comparable joint configurations of this wedge form/style are compared. Point of notation...I am not just consider this joint from an American/European statistical commonality but overall use in timber framing cultures. I think many forget that the dominating number of timber frames built (historically and today) are east and south of the Anatolian peninsula and not in Europe. So when we speak of joint applications, durability and use, we should consider the entirety of the craft.

Regards,

j


Edited by Jay White Cloud (07/12/16 06:56 PM)
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