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#33894 - 08/10/16 02:29 PM frame and SIPs noises
barnz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/16
Posts: 4
Loc: ny
My client has sip panels on their timberframe house, installed in 2006.
The panels have continued to make noise since then, because there are no visible cracks or leaks, I think it is probably expansion movement sounds.
Do you have a recommended method to reduce this movement or the noise?

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#33895 - 08/10/16 03:15 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 470
Loc: Vermont
I stopped using SIP systems almost 3 decades ago...Just not a really good idea in my view...Quick perhaps, but definitely not "best practice," for enclosing and insulating timber frames...Transent architecture at best when done as a modular also...

That entire industry in my view is a bit of a "shell game"...(sorry that is the way I see it.) I should also validate that I have been both a "home inspector" and a state supervisor in Wildlife and Pest control (which is another "racket industry" with as much "congaming" as actual service)...I would say about 30% to 40% with sips and "noise" it is some type of "wee beasty" digging through the stuff...Squirrels (aka "Sciurids" of the Gray, Red, Flying variety) and other rodents LOVE the stuff and borrow through it with ease once inside a wall...and many Hynaptra (aka Ant species) too love to nest in it...!!!

Good Luck!!
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#33897 - 08/10/16 08:42 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
Roger Nair Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/99
Posts: 439
Loc: Bakerton, WV, USA
Well Barnz, it would be helpful if you could describe the evident movement and location, the nature of the sounds and what you know about the sips and how they are fastened.

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#33898 - 08/11/16 12:11 AM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 470
Loc: Vermont
If it not critters...Roger's correct...in finding and diagnosing the root cause...What is causing the "movement"...What type of foam (i.e. urethan, or other?)...What is the fastener type and pattern of placement on the frame...Good luck and please share the outcome...?
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#33900 - 08/11/16 07:54 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
barnz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/16
Posts: 4
Loc: ny
Thanks for your quick replies. I have never heard the noise. The owners say they are sharp cracking sounds. I have photo'd and noted the timber checking over the years, and the timbers checks are not getting bigger, and I don't notice any new ones.
panels were 4" wall, 6.5" roof, polyurethane & OSB. Big panels, 8'x16'-21'
The owners did say they thought there were a lot of panel screws left over when the job was finished.

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#33901 - 08/11/16 08:31 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
Hylandwoodcraft Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 141
Loc: Western NY
Sharp cracking sounds more like checks opening up in the timbers than anything, but the timbers are certainly done drying by now and it sounds like you have eliminated that option. Does this tend to happen under high wind conditions or a similar consistent variable? Does it seem to be localized on any particular side of the building? It would seem that if the panels were rubbing or flexing it would be more of a creak or groan.
As a random thought, because the polyurethane is sprayed into the panel could it have shrinkage issues and be separating from the facing in spots? Sort of a "foam checking". I know that sometimes an improper mix can cause it to happen in stud framed spray foamed installations.
Any other details or clues would be helpful...

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#33902 - 08/11/16 09:01 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
D L Bahler Offline

Member

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 946
Loc: Indiana
We have a building with structural panels, similar to SIPs, on the roof. When the sun shines on them, they have been known to pop. It's even more pronounced now that there is metal on the roof. The popping is just the panels releasing the stress that builds up as they expand. Think if it like an earthquake, where the plates down gradually slip, rather they build up pressure until they let go all at once. The popping is like that, only less destructive.
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#33903 - 08/11/16 09:16 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
Roger Nair Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/99
Posts: 439
Loc: Bakerton, WV, USA
Barnz, in your initial post, you used the word movement twice. So if you think there is a movement issue, you should be able to observe, measure and record changes. If none are found, keep attention and check over time. Show reserve and don't make snap decisions. My private reaction to your first post when I read "expansive movement" was "Aha, water" i thought that the panels might be swelling and binding. When using very large panels there should be a proportionally larger expansion joints. So I would look for swelling of roof and wall surfaces. Don't alarm your clients, look for evidence and discuss observations or the lack of evidence. Take comfort in not seeing things going wrong.

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#33904 - 08/11/16 09:21 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
Hylandwoodcraft Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 141
Loc: Western NY
A less destructive earthquake doesn't sound very reassuring eek
I wonder what the long term effects are? Is the basic cause differing levels of expansion and contraction between the foam and OSB? If that was the case, a cold roof detail and rainscreen on the walls might help? I have never heard of this before!

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#33906 - 08/11/16 11:07 PM Re: frame and SIPs noises [Re: barnz]
D L Bahler Offline

Member

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 946
Loc: Indiana
my impression was that the noise was made where the panels were in contact with each other, or with the framework. Similar to how to metal on a barn roof pops as it heats up, the popping is where is rests along the framework and every now and then has to relieve the forces caused by expansion. I'll admit I don't have a great deal of experience with SIPs, but I could very well see where under-fastened panels will pop along the timbers as they heat and cool.

I was hoping you would read the sarcasm behind my earthquake reference. I agree with Roger, though, don't go feed a client a bunch of 'it could be...'s
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