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#34163 - 05/01/17 11:13 PM seasoned sitka spruce
DFLICK Offline
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Registered: 05/01/17
Posts: 2
Loc: Wrangell,AK
I have recently found a pile of milled, planed and seasoned (it has been sitting covered for years) straight grained sitka spruce timbers. The lady is asking kind of a lot for it all. I want to build a timber frame and i am wondering if this is a good find/ buy?

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#34164 - 05/01/17 11:47 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: DFLICK]
Jay White Cloud Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Hello DFLICk,

Timber frames are normally built of green lumber, not dry or seasoned. It is only a current trend among some that have started employing wood dried in modern kilns like Douglas Fir. It is far from traditional nor necessary.

As such these timber could well be dry (or not...as they take decades to completely dry out) but they could also be distorted. If she is asking more than the going rate for any fresh timber of the same species in your region...??...

Its too much...

Hope that helps...

j
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#34165 - 05/02/17 03:30 AM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: Jay White Cloud]
Cecile en Don Wa Offline
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Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 267
Loc: the Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Jay White Cloud
Hello DFLICk,

Timber frames are normally built of green lumber, not dry or seasoned.


Unless they are built using second-hand timbers from an old frame, seasoned sometimes up to hundreds of years.


Edited by Cecile en Don Wa (05/02/17 03:31 AM)
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#34168 - 05/02/17 02:48 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: Cecile en Don Wa]
Roger Nair Offline
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Registered: 10/20/99
Posts: 447
Loc: Bakerton, WV, USA
I would not find a problem, generally speaking, in using seasoned wood rather than green wood. I would count the ring density per inch as an indicator of strength, higher the count greater the strength and weight. Do you know where the timber was grown, Sitka spruce range from northern California to Alaska, more northern timber is heavier and stronger than southern timber, in general? Seasoned timber should require less offset if you are draw boring and will more likely conform to the shape it was cut.

It really boils down to cost, engineering requirement, suitability of the stock and available substitution. So the range of answers flows from perfect to crap. Really there is nothing to work with here to give any answers.

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#34169 - 05/02/17 08:21 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: DFLICK]
DFLICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/17
Posts: 2
Loc: Wrangell,AK
This is Alaska grown sitka spruce. I could probably cut my own logs and get green timbers made for a lot cheaper. Would that be better and how long should i let them sit before building?

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#34170 - 05/02/17 08:40 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: DFLICK]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Hi DFLICK,

You really don't need to wait any longer than it takes to get them hewn or milled for you to layout and cut joints on them...

I often build frames from all manner (and species) of timber that may have been a tree less than a week?month or so before they are in a frame. Greenwoodworking is an art of its own accord and timber framing is part of that...

Enjoy and go with the less expensive wood, unless she would like to sell the logs to you at current (fare) market price for logs. If her's are actually still logs or large timbers, there not really worth more just because they are sitting someplace drying...If anything they should cost less, as they are going to be more difficult to cut and joint...generally speaking...


Edited by Jay White Cloud (05/02/17 08:52 PM)
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#34171 - 05/02/17 08:43 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: Cecile en Don Wa]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Cecile en Don Wa
...Unless they are built using second-hand timbers from an old frame, seasoned sometimes up to hundreds of years.


This is very true... wink

But that is the exception to the craft not the rule, nor the way it was traditionally practiced...

I'm on a frame restoration now that has a cut frame from 1830 and one from 1790...The wood is very dry, and much less pleasant to work in than "green wood."
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#34172 - 05/02/17 08:51 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: Roger Nair]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Roger Nair
I would count the ring density per inch as an indicator of strength, higher the count greater the strength and weight...


Depending on species perhaps as many second and third growth hardwoods are much stronger than old growth...Weight to can be the same or even heavier depending on growing conditions...

Originally Posted By: Roger Nair
...Sitka spruce range from northern California to Alaska, more northern timber is heavier and stronger than southern timber, in general?


That has not been my experience with this species...Second growth often is stronger and more applicable to contemporary timber framing.

Quote:
Seasoned timber should require less offset if you are draw boring and will more likely conform to the shape it was cut.


Green wood...being flexible...in my experience always is more conforming in joinery and application than dry wood. Then again, this perhaps is why, traditionally Timberwrights predominantly employ green wood...At least that has been my experience...

Quote:
Really there is nothing to work with here to give any answers.


???
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#34174 - 05/02/17 10:39 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: DFLICK]
Roger Nair Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/99
Posts: 447
Loc: Bakerton, WV, USA
Jay, it must be miserable to gainsay every point made not directed to you. If you consider context of a pile of seasoned Sitka Spruce, then my points will have some relevance, unlike the properties of ring porous hardwoods. Within the context of same species softwoods: higher the ring count, higher the specific gravity, additionally, higher the specific gravity higher the strength.

Your comment on second growth typically applies to ring porous hardwood such as oak. Forest grown (slow growth) softwoods are the stronger than plantation grown (rapid growth or second growth) softwoods.



"Quote:
Really there is nothing to work with here to give any answers.


???"

Jay, in order to understand a concluding sentence, read and process the paragraph and the question of the original post in the topic.

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#34176 - 05/02/17 11:24 PM Re: seasoned sitka spruce [Re: DFLICK]
Jay White Cloud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Vermont
Roger...point is...taking a counter view based more on opinion than actually applicable understanding often becomes distracting and deleterious to a productive conversation...

You have all the right to your perspectives, yet your closing comment...

"Really there is nothing to work with here to give any answers."

...seems to basically suggest, that my shared perspective was moot, and the OP wasn't providing enough information to warrant being given a germane answer...

I'm sorry, we disagree on that and several other perspectives I shared.

As to misery...not at all...As to "gainsay," I again apologize if I feel it applicable and appropriate to take a different perspective than you on the subject...
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