I will be building a(38'*36')timber framed western or monitor style barn here in upstate NY starting this spring. This barn will be unheated and uninsulated. I orginally planned to set this on a thickened edged slab with a little extra concrete at the post locations. I have well drained soil and no bed rock. This is the most common foundation type for garages and out buildings in this area. Now after doing some research it seems maybe this isnt such a good foundation system for a timber frame with the deep freezing we have here in the northeast. Should I go with a grade beam and piers? Full footer and frostwall seems so excessive and expensive for a barn. Is anyone useing slabs with success for timber frames in the frozen tundra of the Northeast. Thanks for any replies. BB

Hey BB, I'm in a similar position. I plan to build a timber frame barn this summer and was planning to use a grade beam and pier system. There would be a pier under each post heavily reinforced with rebar. I was planning on using the "Bigfoot" footing form:

http://www.bigfootsystems.com/AbsPage.aspx?siteid=1&lang=1&id=1169

The rebar in the piers would be bent over to tie into the grade beams. In one of Ted Benson's books, he has a good diagram and description of the whole process. I'm up in Maine so frost is a concern here as well. I too think that a full footer and frostwall is overkill (plus expensive). I'd like to get the post bottoms up off the ground so I'd like to use a 2' high grade beam (6" below ground and the rest above).

I'm interested to see what others with more experience think about using a grade beam and piers.

Joe

Howard (my excavator) tells me those Big Foot forms can be a major PIA to get properly placed and if you're over ledge it's best to skip them.

Where I want to put our barn/workshop is over ledge, soil depth varies from <2' to 4' so frost is a concern. I'll pin piers to the ledge and possibly float separate slabs for the aprons and vehicle bays.
But I'm not 100% committed to a design until I've cleaned off enough ledge to see what's needed to channel ground water. There's water less than a foot down in the spring. :rolleyes:

Anyone ever rent a rock crusher?

Thanks for the replies and that link to bigfoot. I havent been able to find much foundation info with the search feature and nothing on slabs. Thanks BB

BB:

I realize that everyone has a budget, but think about the investment (money, time, sweat, heart) that you will be making in the timber frame. If properly executed and maintained, it could stand for a hundred years or more. But only if you invest in a proper foundation now. When we build slab on grade here in Minnesota, we always go with footer and frostwall. Two years after the barn is up, will you be regretting the decision to spend the extra money? CB.

Daiku, Your point is well taken and I couldnt agree more. My limited knowledge on suitable foundation systems is why I am posting here.
I do want to build a structure that will stand the test of time.
The difference in concrete I figured would be 25yd for the grade beam system vs.40yd for footer and frost wall.At $100.00 a yd, savings would be $1500. Not really worth it unless the grade beam system works as well. Has anyone here used this system with good results? Thanks BB

The only example of a grade beam I know of is sitting on a rubble trench up in Canada.

My 30x40 tf was built on grade beam over pier wit 3 ' stone wall and I live in northern NY , 35 BELOW LAST NIGHT. The first winter the barn wasn't up and no cracks or movement. I don't regret for a minute getting so elaborate. For a thickened slab that is frost free look in FineHomebuilding magazine about 1999. There was an article on a frostfree slab that was developed by the scadinavins I believe. It never caught on here because it was difficult to form. It involved a insulated concrete skirt just below grade. It used geo-thermal heat to keep frost from penetrating under the slab. I've never tried it but but it was a proven design , but so is grade beam on pier. I'll try to find the exact issue.