Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4105
03/16/07 06:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
BWeiser
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Hello, My wife and I just had a timber frame/post and beam panel house constructed and finished just over a year ago. I just found something that causes me concern and I thought I would write to your guild looking for advice and guidance. So far, I have found five wooden pegs that were not driven completely though mortise and tenon joints. I have not examined every joint in the house yet. It appears that the peg was driven in from one side, and when it didn't line up correctly with the hole on the other side of the mortise, a shorter peg was simply driven in from the opposite side to give the appearance of a properly pegged joint. My first reaction was that this is improper construction and weakens both the joint and the frame as a whole. But before I do anything further, we thought it would be advisable to look for a third-party professional opinion. We are disturbed that the house we built and are paying for is not built to correct timberframing standards. Is there any advice or help anyone could provide in this matter? My wife and I would greatly appreciate it. I am available both by email or cell phone. Thank you, Brett Weiser Gardners, PA 17324 717-215-0673
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4106
03/16/07 06:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 344
Joel McCarty
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Brett and I have alked extensively on the phone.
We're hoping that there is an experienced timber framer in his area who can take a look.
Perhaps even an engineer.
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4107
03/16/07 07:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Jim Rogers
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Why haven't you contacted the builder of the house about this? Isn't there something they can do?
On another note, I'll be in Carlisle, PA on Tuesday the 27th.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4108
03/17/07 12:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 194
E.H.Carpentry
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Originally posted by Jim Rogers: Why haven't you contacted the builder of the house about this? Isn't there something they can do?
On another note, I'll be in Carlisle, PA on Tuesday the 27th.
Jim Rogers I run into that a lot, too. Customer had some big outfit built or remodel a home. Then they found problems with the workmanship but are so mad at the builder that they do not want to call them. So I get to fix it. Sometimes I wonder why I do not get away with mistakes if I make any. I always get to fix them myself( at no charge of course). Better do it right the first time around the next time. Brett, call the framer and for back up have another framer or engineer on side, also.
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4109
03/17/07 01:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 574
Timber Goddess
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I find this an interesting issue. I suppose it depends on the joint itself whether or not it's going to affect the structure. But wasn't there some thread discussing the necessity or lack thereof of a pegged joint? And kudos to Joel and Jim for looking into this one. Can you guys follow up when the conclusions are made? I'm totally curious...
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4111
03/17/07 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 71
Timbo
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I wouldn't lose sleep over it but do call the framer , it's probably something they would be glad to fix. I've seen all sorts of errant pegs in old barns and no joint failures in any of them. It probably isn't to hard of a repair.
Timothy W Longmore
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4112
03/18/07 03:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 26
Mad Professor
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A consideration is what type of joints have the faulty pegs. Things that need the peg struturally as the joint is meant to have tension (i.e. tie beams) are more critical than joints that work in compression (knee braces).
If they are just knee braces I wouldn't worry about it, if they are bad pegs on tie beams that is another story.
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4113
03/18/07 04:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 75
Dan F
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BW, you don't have an email address attached to your profile. I'll be out your way on a couple of occasions over the next month or so. I'd be happy to take a look for you.
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4114
03/19/07 11:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
BWeiser
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Thank you all for the responses. I thought I did have an email attached to my profile--I'll check that and correct.
I do plan to go back to the builder but wanted a third-party opinion prior to that. Just want to have my facts straight prior to the conversation as this won't be the first point of contention we've been over.
In answer to the locations of the five pegs found so far--four are in knee braces and one is in a tie beam for the second floor loft. I plan to look for others tonight.
Jim and/or Dan, I live about 15 minutes south of Carlisle and if you are willing to take a look, I can arrange to meet you on whatever day works for you.
Oh yes, I am unsually not on a computer over the weekends, which explains the tardy response. Thank you for you help and patience so far!
Brett
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Re: Possible faulty timberframe joints
#4115
03/19/07 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 603
brad_bb
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Are you really sure there is a problem? Were they pegs that were just never trimmed flush? Are we sure that they really have "backed out"?
Timber frame peg hole are meant to have an 1/8 inch offset between the mortice and tennon holes so that when the peg is driven in, they draw together tight.
First verify there is a problem - which is why you want another timber framer to look at it.
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