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Re: scarfing question #5746 01/25/07 01:37 AM
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northern hewer Offline
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My vote is for the scarf joint to be directly over the post, and let the braces do the only job they are supposed to do keep the framework rigid
I have never seen a scarf joint over a brace in a traditional sense, It would be nice to hear if any other researchers or those that dabble in the historical field has seen a scarf joint over a brace.
I have been wrong before but lets hear some feedback

NH

Re: scarfing question #5747 01/27/07 11:31 AM
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MTF Offline
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I converted to scarf over brace about 5 or 6 years ago and have been very happy with the results. I’m not a 'true student' of historical frames, but the location of scarfs is a feature I look for. I agree it is not the norm to find the scarf located over the brace, but I have seen them there. I’ve also seen examples of the scarf over the post with the scarf showing signs of separating due to high bending loads.

Thanks,
pete

Re: scarfing question #5748 02/04/07 10:01 PM
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Timbo Offline
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I never understood the scarf over brace idea, but now it makes more sense. I would still scarf (or more likely lap joint)over the post because it looks stronger , more symetrical , and doesn't rely on the brace for support. yes, i believe ,no I know braces often share loads . Braces ,especially in old barns can rot at the lower part of the brace and fail.


Timothy W Longmore
Re: scarfing question #5749 02/05/07 02:33 AM
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Tom Cundiff Offline
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There are some advantages to locating the scarf over the brace. The picture shows purlin plates and posts assembled and lifted into place, keeping workers close to the ground. The fewer connections in the air the better. Tom


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Re: scarfing question #5750 02/05/07 11:45 AM
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E.H.Carpentry Offline
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Tom,

is the goal building a frame that can be completely assembled on the ground or should it be build correctly engineering wise?
I still would put it over the post.
And what happens when the rafters and Sips get installed? Somebody will have to be up on the roof.
There is nothing better then scaffolding when it comes to raisings and plenty of it.

Re: scarfing question #5751 02/05/07 01:41 PM
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daiku Offline
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Another vote for scaffolding. And fill in that stiarway hole while you're at it. CB.


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Clark Bremer
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Re: scarfing question #5752 02/05/07 01:54 PM
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Tom Cundiff Offline
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EH, This is a frame that is 84' long. If the scarfs were located over the posts, there would have been at least half a dozen more of them to cut. This frame was built at a Guild workshop/rendezvou at the Botancial Garden of the Ozarks by 12 students in two weeks! I did not design the frame, I was just an instructor. I believe that material length plays a big part in determining scarf location. Raising sequence is also a consideration. Unless Testing is done to conclusively disprove the printed material on the placement of scarfs, we will probably see a lot more scarfs over braces, and I will continue to stir the debate. Doubting Thomas laugh


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Re: scarfing question #5753 03/08/07 04:16 AM
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Colton Allen Offline
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This may be a silly question, but say there is no brace. Should the scarf be over the post then?

Re: scarfing question #5754 03/08/07 08:50 AM
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Michal Zajic Offline
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Colton,
Surely it is a good idea but scarf does not have to be over post neither directly supported by brace in general.
I'd suggest you to have structural engineer locate the exact position and type of scarf. If you're not using structural engineer make it over post.

Michal
TFDesign.cz


Mr. Michal Zajic Timber Frame Design http://www.tfdesign.cz
Re: scarfing question #5756 03/08/07 07:45 PM
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Raphael D. Swift Offline
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Since the infamous diagrams of shear and moment ignore the knee braces the same logic would apply.


Raphael D. Swift
DBA: DreamScapes
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