I plan to build a barn that is 34x36 that will be built into a hill and will need to support a pickup loaded with hay on the second level. One 34 and one 36’ wall will be built into the hill and will have an 10’ high concrete wall. The layout of the barn will be as follows. The posts will be spaced 12’ oc along the 36’ side and will be at 0,12,22,34 along the gable end that will give me two rows of 12x12 stalls with a 10’ ally. I am planning to use white oak for all timbers and the second flooring. I plain to use 8x8 posts, 8x20 beams, 4x8 floor joists 24 oc and 3x 6 or 8 flooring,

My questions are, are these dimensions sufficient and where can I be get blueprints for a barn of this type at a reasonable price. I have checked the USDA archives and did not find any plains for a barn built into a hill. The other issues is any of the engineers I have spoken to about this are not familiar with timber framing and they insist that I cannot accomplish what I am looking for with a timber structure.

Tom: My advice to you is, let the timber frame designer decide on the sizes of your timbers. Someone who had drawn barns before will understand the sizes needed to hold up the loads you're intending to place on the timbers in your barn.
I would suggest going to the timber framers guild home page and click on resource guide and enter your state, and click leaving the category blank. This will list all timber framing companies (as well as other companies) registered with the guild from your state. There are several there. They have experience working in your state and can advise you further or help you with your frame design.
If you change the state to CT you'll find other engineers who are qualified to help you with your design and maybe able to help you get approved plans for your state.
Building into a hill shouldn't be a problem if it's designed correctly for proper support and water runoff.
You could also check with the timber framers business council for leads on engineers or timber frame designers who can help you with your plans. Their web page is: www.timberframe.org
Good luck with your project. Jim

From the early 18th century onward the Pennsylvania bank barn is one of the most prevalent barn styles in the mid-Atlantic and westward. "The Pennsylvania Barn" by Robert F. Ensminger, Johns Hopkins University Press would be an essential reference on the variety and developement of the bank barn.

Can you say why the engineer advised against a bank barn?

Timber size should stem from design unless you already have the wood. I suspect the floor joist should be more like 4 x 10 and the beams 8 x 12 and posts 8 x 8 would carry the load but may not work with joinery.

I will try the resource guide to find an engineer in my area who could help.

In all honesty the problem with the engineers I have spoken to has been the lack of familiarity with timber framing and the comfort level they have with steel and concrete.

The timber dimensions I mentioned are from estimates looking at an existing structure on the property.

Thanks for all your suggestions.