HELLO NORTHERN HEWER

Thanks for the great advise. That is about the same thing I had in mind. Is it advisable to get a draftsman or can I draw the bents out myself? I'm quite sure we live in the same neck of the woods and would love to speak to someone who has the same interests in person. You can reach me here or at mament@sprint.ca Thanks Mike

Hello M&M:

I am sure that you can sketch out the bents yourself being very careful to include all the pieces of each section, including all the braces etc. remember that each brace may be slightly different, and should go back in the reconstructed frame in its original position and oriented properly , that is why for instance I would tack on the numbering tags always in the same position (eg. outside surface, lower ends for instance). Also remember that the original foundation may or maynot have been perfectly level, and could easily have been out of level 4 or 5 inches from one corner to another, this would have required some adjustments to the braces on the raising day of long ago. Your new foundation with any luck will no doubt be nearly perfectly level which can be accomplished easily with today's knowhow and tools. This may mean that some adjustment will be necessary on your raising day coming up. I used a draftsman because I had one at my disposal and he was just directed to come up with the type of plans that fit the job at hand. If the frame has spent a good deal of its life twisted because of deteriorated foundations stones or supports shifting, the timbers may not want to return to their original framing lines, this in itself may cause you some headackes on the reconstruction day. You may have to use a little force to bring the plates and posts back to their old postions, but be careful because excessive force can cause timbers to crack, and tenons to snap. if alot of force is needed apply alittle each day letting the timber gradually straighten out gently.
I hope this helps
NH

Do you guys reuse the old pegs if possible and what process do you use to make new ones? (whittled out by hand or machined?)Also is there such a thing as a timberframer in the Toronto area that I could hire to make adjustments during raising day(s).
thanks Mike

Hi Mike,

Have you established if your frame was laid out using scribe rule or square rule? It makes a difference in the documentation approach we use.

Oh, and by the way, it's impossible to take too many pictures before during and after disassembly.

Rudy

Mike: One way to find a timber framer in your area is to go to the timber framers guild home page and click on 'resource guide' in the upper right hand corner. Then click on timber framer and enter your area. This should give you a list of timber framers in your area with names, addresses and phone numbers. You could try emailing them if their email address is listed.
In the resource guide is also a company listed that makes pegs for timber framing.
Or you could make your own, by splitting the wood and then shaping them to size using a drawn knife. It depends on what you want to do, or how you want to correctly restore your frame.
At the Cuvilly barn 'un-raising' we numbered all the pegs with their location so that if, in good condition, they could be reused. Some will have to be replaced as they were broken, or drilled out.

Good luck with your project and keep asking questions.

HiRudy
How do I tell if it's scribe rule or square rule? I did see something about that on this site but don't know where now. Also what documentation procedure do you use?
Thanks Mike

Hi Jim
I tried what you suggested but nothing shows up for timberframers or peg suppliers in Ontario but I'll keep looking.
Thanks Mike

Mike: For the peg supplier put in New Hampshire, and you'll find the one I was referring too.
That's funny, when I did a search for timber framers, just now, it lists three in Ontario. I'm not sure if any of them are near you. If you can't find them again let me know and I'll copy my search screen and email it to you directly.
If you want to make your own pegs, I have a set of plans for a shaving horse. And pictures of how to split your peg stock. Good luck, Jim

I think you found a glitch. Try this, go to 'Members Only' then search membership. Use the abbreviation ON in the state/province field, typing out Ontario will yield no results.

Hi Mike,

The difference between scibe and square rule framing in a nutshell is standardization of building components to fit the particular building pattern. The easiest way to tell is to look for markings (carpenter's marks) at the joints that often look like (or are) Roman Numerals. If the frame has them, it's probably completely or partially scribe rule. I just looked at a frame today at an old grist mill in Yellow Springs Ohio that has scibe rule markings but also has square rule type housings in the roof system. Probably built by someone who learned to frame scribe, but was learning square.

The reason for the carpenters marks is to make sure each piece in the frame goes back exactly where it was scribed to fit. Consequently, you don't need to mark the pieces as you take the frame apart since they already are. You do need to make (or hire someone to) very good frame drawings and put all the marks you find on them as you take everything apart. Make sure to put the marks on the drawings where they are on each piece in the frame.

If the frame has no marks, it's probably square or mill rule. In that case you need to mark or tag the timbers as you go. We use a simple system that looks at the frame in plan view. The posts are usually in rows in two directions. They are lined up within the bents, and most often lined up across the bents too. Once you have a plan view of the post feet, you can identify the bents from left to right as Roman numerals and top to bottom with letters of the alphabet. Each post ends up with an alphanumeric ID like IA, IIC or VIB. For the most part, that's all you need since the walls girts, rafters, braces etc. are all the same within the pattern. If you need to add a third dimension, we use English numbers so a low wall girt might be IIA1 while the one above it is IIA2.

Clear as mud? It all makes sense when you do it.

Hope this helps.

Rudy