We've used a few products for finishing
Pratt and Lambert Okene, too toxic and I believe discontinued.
Benjamin Moore Antique Oil finish

Anyone have anything else they'd recommend ?
thanks

We have been using raw (not boiled!) linseed oil mixed 50/50 with straight gum turpentine for 16 years. Works very nicely on oak, doug fir, cherry, poplar, hickory. Doesn't work well on rough sawn or hewn material.

It's also totally healable (repairable) after the subs (boneheads) have dinged, marred and smudged your timbers. Just re-sand and re-oil. Viola!

I Very much agree, even though we do not oil our frames. I have used the mix EXACTLY as Rudy has set out, i.e. un-boiled & raw for all home projects, some times going for 2 or even 2.5 parts gum turps on very green timbers, as a priming coat.

I understand that Real gum turpentine and linseed oil have good green credentials, and are relatively non-toxic and safe. Linseed is also non flammable (allegedly or so the UK's main imported tells me - In fact what he actually said - In a heavy Scots accent, was that you can- "Boil It To Buggery" without it catching afire).

It really does appear to be self healing, and for reasons I don't understand resistant to both water and heat marks, therefore as such makes an excellent furniture finish.

My experience would also lead me to believe that it slows down and reduces the incidence and occurrence of shakes and shrinkage.

Beware

IT CAN TAKE A LONG TIME TO GO OFF / DRY.

I have a recommendation however; this is what I do:
If I have oil finished an artifact, (those who know me well will appreciate my reluctance to call my stuff furniture), I check it after a few days by placing articles of junk mail on the surface to check the degree of bleeding, since I seem to have no shortage of this stuff, I just do this every day, examining the previous days offering as I check my post (no pun I mean Mail), until such time as the bleeding stops and the finish can be declared dry. This can take weeks rather than days.

You may find that applied to a frame which is part of a construction site, the oil will act as a dust magnet, with undesirable results.

Historically people have alluded that when applied to pieces of furniture this attraction for airborne debris has resulted in smoke particulates, (from the open fires - before the days of chimneys / fire places) adding to the patina. I feel that this may have more to do with the beeswax polish, and don't currently have the band width to open that line of reasoning, (especially as I'm far out of my depth as it is!)

By a strange coincidence last week I was rounding of the week in my usual Friday after-work venue - The Jolly Huntsman, the Landlord asked me to pass comment on the work of the guy refinishing the bar fixtures and furniture (after the fire before Christmas) This would be french polisher has an excellent job traveling the length and breadth of the country specializing in this work. He of course has to wait for the clientele to depart before starting his night shift, and judging by his early evening intake, has mastered the art of working with a serious happy head. His work was excellent, and he explained in great detail the various modern chemicals he was using. It was mostly double Dutch to me, and I explained my Ludditeish attachment to Linseed, where upon this techno chemical expert exclaimed that linseed was beyond doubt the best finish of all!!!!

He also gave me this valuable tip which I have yet to try. The day following application wipe the surfaces with a rag soaked in methylated (mineral) spirits, this will apparently leave the surface dry.

You can also use Linseed Oil on ironwork and Stone

Lastly I have a question

We have been given the name of an Oil which is suitable for use externally, (which Linseed is not), and which seems to preserve the light colour of oak without being shiny. This stuff is apparently called Oak Oil and goes under the trade name of Sabrina.

I would be very grateful for all and any info on this subject

Here's a suggestion from a framer who hates oil finishes: they are hard to apply well, tack up, don't set right in the cold, are a bunch of work, make no sense on softwood, etc., etc.

What I am about to describe is known as Finish for the Millennium (it was born as Finish for the 80s, then 90s) and is based on the waterproofer developed by paint chemists at the USDA Forest Products Lab in Madison, Wisconsin. The essence of the finish is household wax in mineral spirits. You can jazz it up using turpentine and beeswax and adding spar varnish for gloss and hardness, or use the barebones version (containing no mildew food) plus a fungicide for outdoor use.

Apply at any temperature, it dries in minutes. If you don't use too much wax you can add successive coats. Cleans up easily later with more finish. Buffs up to a dull shine with a soft cloth. Does tend to make timber surfaces a bit slippery.

I recommend it to all oil finish refugees. Try it, you'll like it.

Here's the deal:

FINISH FOR THE MILLENIUM

The Formula: 3 Parts Gum Turpentine (or mineral spirits)
1 Part Good Spar Varnish
Paraffin To Satisfaction

Recipes

for 4 Gallons: 3 Gallons Turps
1 Gallon Varnish
Wax: 2 -3 Bricks*

for 1 Gallon: 3 Quarts Turps
1 Quart Varnish
1/2 - 3/4 Bricks Wax

Heat turps in double boiler (tin can in old crock pot). Dissolve shaved wax in warm turps. Add to remaining turps and varnish. Use immediately. Allow several days between applications. Before re-coating, rub down timbers in accessible areas with a coarse cloth, steel wool, scotch-brite or fine sandpaper. Remove dust with a tackcloth before painting. If a high gloss finish is desired, increase varnish and wax content in the final coat (2:1 turps to varnish, wax to saturation).

*5 bricks = 1 box of wax = 1 pound

Of course us rough rustic types have an alternative 'recipe':

You need -
One very big compressor
2 Tonnes of "Blast Media" (formerly known as Sand)
Blast Pot, hoses and nozzles
space suits/deep sea diver outfits
Otherwise unemployable headcases to operate the above

Works a treat

Back to Rudy and Bill's recipe. Why raw linseed oil instead of boiled? I've been using a furniture finish of boiled linseed oil, beeswax and turpentine for a good while, and was a bit surprised at the suggestion to use the raw oil.

A couple of reasons for raw oil.

Boiled oil isn't really boiled oil anymore. It's chemically altered (a sixties thing) with hydrocarbons (I think) to make it "go off". The problem is that unless you add an additional catalyst, like Japan hardener, it goes off extremely slow. This usually leads to the "tacky" condition Ed spoke of. The finish doesn't really soak in, but tends to lay there and coagulate. You want a real mess? Try to clean drywall dust out of a boiled oil finish that hasn't really gone off. Don't go there.

Raw linseed oil, on the other hand, seems to have the ability to migrate into the surface of the wood. By adding turpentine as a vehicle, it soaks in even further. Sawing off a sample of white oak that has been treated with this mixture will show 1/2" or more of penetration. Pretty amazing in my book. Since the oil/turp mix tends to soak in rapidly, the timber is ready to handle much sooner. Unless it's really cold, it should handle fine in a day or two.

The other reason for raw is the "repairability" factor. Boiled oil finishes will not sand well, so it's hard to take out superman footprints that show up a couple days after the raising. Raw oil is very sandable, and actually makes a very suitable base for other finishes (or refinishing) that might be needed say in a bathroom or pool area. Just let in dry, and check for compatabilty.

I have heard some rumors that linseed oil finish will blacken in certain conditions. I have yet to have this happen. We have used it in sunpaces, direct sunlight, bathrooms and kitchens. I suspect this may actually be a mildew condition that does often occur if a frame is paneled in over a fresh slab or foundation.

Oh? I had always thought that the only application for boiled Linseed was for applying to ones Cricket Bat (don't ask why I don't know). However I guess they were still boiling it when my Scots pal formed his views on its inflammability.

The boiled Linseed does have a reputation for being very sticky, and Rudy's point about drywall dust is well made.

The other winning factor is what has been described as the self-healing nature of the finish, to me this means that the timber can be dented knocked scratched or dinged, with out the change in colour that you get with finishes that don't penetrate deeply. This is very important because rather than becoming tatty (prime example look at bar room /institutional furniture that has been coated with cellulose type finishes), these timbers start to aquire the patina of age.

The fact that you can achieve surface penetration with an oil-based finish on green timber may account for my perception that this controls the rate and nature of the drying out of those timbers. I believe that it slows down and reduces the incidence and occurrence of shakes and shrinkage.

The following is entirely conjecture, so if you know I'm wrong don't hesitate to say so!

If the oil partially seals the surface, then the migration of moisture from the wetter center to the dryer outside must be slowed, the moisture gradient flatter, therefore the internal drying stresses less severe. If you accept that the drying stresses are tangental, the outer growth rings drying over the wetter inner rings, Then if the moisture gradient is less steep, there will be less of a tendency for radial shakes to occur and there could be less compression / deformation of the inner rings reducing the degree of shrinkage as the cells collapse.

This is a theory put up for debate, and is based on my personal observations, not of Timberframes but of other (often large) "artifacts" in English Oak, Scots Elm, and Welsh Beech.

I completely agree with the stress amelioration theory. Obviously you can't heal a shake with it, but I beleive there's little question it helps control checking.

I liked the part about the large air compressor.

But seriously, no discussion of linseed oil would be complete without the mandatory cautionary tale of the burning to the ground of Kate Nerrie's (aka Ms.Gulch) barn here in the Peoples' Republic of Alstead Center.
Do not accept any of that whiz-bang advice about covering your oily rags in water in airtight cans far from the perimeter of the building; count your rags as they exit the ragbox, and burn your rags immediately after use. Period. No other technology, no below zero weather, no falling rain or snow, will protect you and your work and your family from the insidious properties of linseed. We can prove this, sadly.

[This message has been edited by Joel McC (edited 03-09-99).]

Joel is right about counting your rags. We use a pretty much ragless process. Apply with a brush. Don't wipe (you don't need to), and keep your brush submerged in mix when not in use.

One other warning. Our very first raising was a hand raising. We had done so well with scheduling, we were oiling timbers the day we were raising (because we had been finishing the joinery the night before). The next day we heard more than one story of beards being shaved of before husbands were allowed to come to bed.

Job hazards never sleep.

I think Im missing the point here gentlemen?
Whats the deal with the beards being shaved off?
is this Rude (Pun sort of intended - well almost- remember Im facially hairilly challenged!)
Why count the rags the stuff does not combust of its own accord?
however, buy me enough beer and I might
thats to say MIGHT, admit the story about the beer, the Chimney fire, the Jotul Stove, and (what I thought was) the hand sprayer full of water from the workshop - you guessed it

I'm as confused as ever. It has been publicized that linseed will in fact sponaneously combust on rags and brushes. Why then doesn't it combust on a timber. Also, does this impact the flamability of the timber once the finish is dry? Last, what are the problems with applying these finishes to hewn surfaces.

[This message has been edited by Matthew_Marino (edited 03-11-99).]

It is plain that I too am missing out on something.

I have never heard of Linseed spontaneously combusting.
Bear in mind that the UK's main importer told me that Linseed is non flammable, and you can- "Boil It" without it catching fire.

This would suggest that it is the thinners or carrier, (the turps) that causes the problem. This would not appear the case with the stuff used here otherwise there would be warnings on the containers, general knowledge of the occurrence etc.

I have to admit to being a little concerned as there are jars, brushes, and mountains of rags scattered around my home workshop, and have been for years.

Anyone who is chemically gifted and who can explain the possible differences or the situations leading to spontaneous combustion would have his views well received here.

With regard to the hand hewn timber, there should be no problem applying the finish.
I have found that a hand sprayer to be ideal, avoiding the risks involved with snagging bristles or threads on any splintery bits.

I have been advised by the distributors of Wagner Airless Sprayers that these can be used with a Linseed turps mix without problems.

I'm no chemist, but Karl Brandt is. I'll see if I can rope him into this.

We have better than anecdotal evidence of the spontaneous flammability (like Bill's sense of humour) of flax oil/linseed oil products. It seems to require the intermediate vehicle of a rag.