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Advice on cutting white pine timbers #7689 02/26/01 04:28 AM
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Thirty years ago, we planted five thousand white pines in central Virginia. They weren't thinned well. I want to cut a hundred or more trees for a large 2 story timber frame house I want to build in central Tennessee next year. I have access to a portable 21 foot sawmill and will cut the trees into timber next week. The trees I'll cut are about 14-18 inch diameter at eye level and 60 feet tall.
1. Any advice on how to treat the ends would be appreciated. How can I mix a wax or brine solution? How often should I recoat the ends?
2. I will cut them into 21 foot 10x10, 8x8 and 6x6 timbers and stack them appropriately. I plan to build a shed roof to store them under while they dry for a year. Do you recommend a concrete slab or can I store them on concrete blocks without a lot of warping and twisting?
3. Any other advice about working with white pine or on how best to cut the trees into timbers?
4. Any other advice about planning how to store the timbers?
Thank you very much.

Re: Advice on cutting white pine timbers #7690 03/01/01 12:46 AM
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Keith:
1. You should contact UC Coatings and get some “Anchor Seal” and paint it on the ends of the logs very soon after they are cut to length. This will prevent end splitting. You maybe should get ‘clear’ sealer as you will need to look thru this end sealer for laying out the timbers, see #3. If you use this stuff you shouldn’t need to recoat the ends but you can ask the salesman when you call.
2. Either a slab or blocks will due as long as the timbers have enough support for the weight you will be placing on them. For rough figuring I use 2.92 lbs per board foot, to calculate beam weight. You should plan on placing the timbers on support blocks every 2’ on center starting on the end. And as you are going to mill them to 21’ you can move the last one over that extra 1’ without any problems. Just be sure to make all your support blocks level, front to back, and left to right with each other. Usually lumber is stored as least 12” to 16” off the ground to allow good airflow under the pile. Up here in the northeast it’s important because of snow cover during the winter. But down where you are it’s probably not a problem. If you build a roof then make sure you leave the sides and ends open to allow good airflow, thru your stack. If you keep your stickers aligned vertically over the support blocks it will reduce warping and twisting. Use kiln dried stickers. Especially if you put some other lumber on top of the pile of beams once this stack has been finished. The extra lumber will help keep the top rows from warping and twisting.
3. You said you’d be doing a thinning. Well what you’re doing is improving the stand of trees. This is called “timber stand improvement” (TSI). When we did TSI years ago, the forester told us to remove the four “D”s. that’s dead, diseased, deformed, and dominant. So, you probably don’t want to use the dead ones. Or the diseased ones, as they both are not good for timber framing. You can use the deformed ones if you cut them to length properly to remove or eliminate the deformed part. You should not use any logs with weevil damage in them. You should plan on cutting the log to length before the weevil damage and start the next log further up the tree from that damage spot. Do you know what weevil damage in a tree looks like? If not you should find out, soon. Now to the fourth “D”, dominant. These are removed to make the canopy all the same height over all. He also taught us to look at the crowns. Pick a keeper tree and to remove all other trees whose crown is touching or within this crown. And to remove all neighbors, so that there is a ring around this “keeper” tree’s crown that is 4’ larger. When you do this you release all the others for more sunlight. And they grow ten times faster.
It will also help get sunlight to the forest floor, for regeneration of new stock.
The way the “old timer” taught us to harvest for timber was to set your chain saw on the ground, roll it over on it’s side and start cutting. You want to get every inch from the stump end because you might need it up above to make a log the correct length. We used this method as best we could. With trees with big butt flairs it’s sometimes a little difficult. You can always trim the “bell” off after the logs are cut to length. Once the tree is down, limb it out from stump to tip, before you cut any logs to length. We used to cut to an 8” diameter. We took a 14” to 16” square piece of plywood and cut an 8” wide slot in one edge, in 8 to 10”. This is a plywood caliper gauge. You just walk up the tree and try to slide it over the trunk and when it does, that’s 8” in diameter. (Or you can make one of any size you’ll need.) Just slide it over the log and leave it there and limb it out up to that point, but don’t cut it off until after you measure all your logs. You might need an inch or two beyond the plywood. You’ll see once you’ve done a few.
Now that it’s limbed out, laying on the ground you can sight it for bends. You try to cut your logs to length based on what you “see” for bends. If you want straight lumber you need straight logs. You plan your cuts at the bends. Standard lengths are cut 6” over the even foot. Usually starting at 8’ and going on up to whatever length you can mill. In your case 21’. So that’s 8’6”, 10’6”, 12’6”, 14’6”, 16’6”, 18’6”, 20’6”, 21’6”. Now for standard cutting to lengths there are other cuts also. If the bend is at 17’, you have a choice. Cut a 16’6” or two 8’6” logs. So, you can measure and cut what we called doubles. That’s two logs at a time. Those cuts are at 17’, 19’, 21’, 23’, 25‘, 27’, on and on up to 43’ for two 21’6” ones. This way, measuring and cutting doubles is based on where the bend is. Do all measuring with a tape. That way you utilize the entire tree. It’s really up to you. We used to haul out doubles as it was easier and made fewer trips in and out of the wood lot. It really depends on your heavy equipments’ limitations.
Now if you have a stock list of the lengths you need for your project you can really use the entire tree. It would be a waste to cut them all to 21’ and then get a plan and find out the longest one you need is 18’6”. You’ll be spending all that time and effort, just to cut 3’ off and throw it away. You should have a house plan first and cut to that plan.
Now you said these trees are 14-18” diameter at eye level. Well a 10x10 needs 14 1/8” diameter at the narrow end of the log. So you better plan on using all the big ones for your 10x10s. You need to figure the diagonal of the timber, to get the diameter of the log needed to make that timber. Do you understand what I mean? You can’t make an 8x8 from an 8” log. It takes an 11 5/16” log to make an 8x8. So when I’m milling I use the diameter of the narrow end of the log to determine what size beam I can get out of it. Does that make sense to you?
You should plan on stacking all your logs next to your mill with the narrow or top end towards the operator. It’s a little extra work for the equipment operator, but it saves the sawyer a lot of time.
Now once you’ve done that and now you’re ready to start milling beams you have to plan on “boxing” the heart. Or making boxed heart beams. That is when you look at the end of the timber the outside edges are the box and the heart/pith of the tree is in the middle. Both ways, left and right up and down. And most important of all both ends. These boxed heart beams are the best for timber framing. The way I do this is to level the heart/pith of the log, on both ends with the mill. Either the table or the blade, they should both be the same. I use the table. Using your taper controls, you should bring the narrow end of the log up to match the big end, that is the distance from the pith to the table, both ends the same. This is what I call leveling the heart. Now that the heart is level you need to figure your last cut first. Now that sounds funny, but that’s what you have to do. If you are cutting 10x10 then the last cut is 5” from the heart, on all faces. On 8x8’s 4” and 6x6s 3”. Do you see what I mean? Now let’s say your log is level and the heart/pith are 9” off the table, then the last cut for a 10x10 is at 14”. So don’t cut any deeper or you’ll move the heart off center. Now that you know that 14” is the last cut, you just start adding the thickness of the pieces you’ll be cutting on you way down to that point. If you are cutting 2” add 2” plus the saw cut of 1/8”. I assume you’re using a band mill. So the next cut up is 16 1/8”. Then next one up from that is 18 1/4”, on and on. If you are cutting boards then it’s 1 1/8” on and on up. Now if the log has stress in it you should plan on leaving some boards or one plank on this first face until you’ve milled some off the other faces. You’ll know when there is stress in the log, as the piece being cut moves as it’s being cut. Sometimes you have to cut only one board and then roll the log. Then cut one board and roll it back. It depends on the tree and the amount of stress in the log.
Once you have the first face cut to the point where you are going to roll it to face number 2 then you level the log again. Using the heart/pith on each end again. When this face is done and you roll over to face number 3 you don’t have to use any taper controls as the log has been leveled on this axis already. Same with face number 4. When you are done with all 4 faces you’ll have a boxed heart beam, with the pith directly in the center on both ends.
Now the only other thing to take into consideration is grade. You should plan on making beams that are at least grade 2 or better. You’ll have to check with your building inspector to see if he wants them grade “stamped”. And if he does you’ll have to contact a grader in your area. Once you’ve got all your timbers milled and ready, a grader can come over and inspect all the timbers probably all in one day. This is very important that you satisfy the building inspector, before you build you house. I’ve heard stories from grade inspectors about inspecting timbers after the house was built and finding bad timbers that had to be replaced. And that’s a job that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
4. The only thing that I can think about storing these timbers has been said above. Seal them, stack them level, good airflow, keep the rain off, and that’s it.
Good luck, Jim

[This message has been edited by J Rogers (edited 02-28-2001).]

Re: Advice on cutting white pine timbers #7691 03/01/01 07:30 PM
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Ken Hume Offline
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I think that J Rogers has just about covered it all except one thing - blue sap stain.

Pines are quite susceptible to developing blue stain if cut and then not dried quickly enough to prevent the formation of blue stain.

You can deal with this one of two ways.

Submerge your logs in water till you are ready to cut them or

Pick your time of year to fell and cut.

The next three months are the coolest and driest of the year and thefore good for cutting and stacking. Felling and sawing later on in say June through August i.e. when it is warm and the relative humidity is high will run the risk of a slower surface dry and the development of blue stain.

Since your trees are only 30 years old then when you cut them you will probably see that almost half the growth rings are still sap wood and therefore you need to take higher than average care to avoid stain.
Ken Hume


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Re: Advice on cutting white pine timbers #7692 03/02/01 12:05 AM
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Thanks for the reminder, and I agree. Jim

Re: Advice on cutting white pine timbers #7693 03/02/01 02:47 AM
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Will Truax Offline
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Kieth,

The technical stuff has been covered, the only advice left to give is to leave some of those stems longer than 21'

You should be able to bring in a bandmill guy for a day or so or hire a knuckleboom to truck a few to a mill with a long carriage,for reasonable money and end up with continuous ties & plates and a better frame.

Also, drop them before the sap really gets to risein !

Should read : Band mill guy with a longer mill - Woodmizer folk for instance sometimes own the available 20' extension will set it up for an additional fee, and you end up with timber in the 35' range

Will

[This message has been edited by Will Truax (edited 03-02-2001).]


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Re: Advice on cutting white pine timbers #7694 03/10/01 09:35 PM
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Mark L Surnoskie Offline
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The fungi that causes blue mold, which in its initial stage doesn't effect the strength of the wood. Sapwood is what the fungi thrives on because of the carbohydrates stored in the cells. The best way to control it is chemically inhibiting the fungi. Borate salts (Borax) kills the fungi. There are commercial solutions that can be sprayed on such as YardGuard, Timbor etc. These can be obtained from log home supply places or contact a local sawmill and ask what they use to dip their lumber in to prevent staining. Also you can use a wax emulsion to end seal the logs and timbers. Lee Valley Tools has one called End Seal. As for the dead and diseased trees, they can still be cut in to useable lumber. I sawed lots of cull logs go through the mill I was the sawyer in. One thing I'd like to emphasize is cut the logs straight. You get better grade lumber that way. Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by Mark L Surnoskie (edited 03-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mark L Surnoskie (edited 03-10-2001).]


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