Chisel Mortiser
#8571
08/19/04 09:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 79
Joel
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Are there any timber frame chisel mortisers sold in the USA? I know there used to be. Rumor they stopped selling them here. New rumor that they are once again available.
I'd gladly swap my rumors for your facts!
Thank uou,
Joel
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8572
08/21/04 03:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 94
jim haslip
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Makita has both chain Mortisers and chisel Mortisers. Mafell has a chain Mortiser. I've used both. There are substantial differences in design and cost. check them out...
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8573
08/28/04 12:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 79
Joel
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Jim...
Thank you for your reply. My delay in responding is due to a wicked head cold.
I can't seem to find any info on the Makita chisel mortiser. My web searches find chain mortisers and bench top chisel mortisers! Can you point me in the right direction?
I used a Mafel for a couple mortisers at Heartwood School. Very nice tool...but costs more than I should spend for a tool that will get ocassional use. One of the Heartwood instructors suggested that a chisel mortiser might be more useful for projects other than large timberframes than a chain mortiser.
BTW, I've heard comments that the Makita chain mortiser is not the smoothest in the world and wears out the user fast. Also heard it will kick back a moderate amount of time. How true is all these?
Joel
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8574
08/31/04 01:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 86
Bob Smith
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Hi there,
I have used both the Mafell and Makita mortisers extensively and they each have their own merits and disadvantages.
The Makita is significantly less expensive and comes with more chain thickness options. We use both a 3/4 and a 1 inch chain depending on the task.By cutting with the grain, the Makita leaves a cleaner sidewall cut. This helps with wedge, spline, and bare-face mortices. We are also able to rake the bottom of large mortices, ensuring a dimensionally accurate and smooth bottom. Deponding on the hook and sharpness of the blade, the Makita can indeed jump around a bit. With a little practice, you should be able to anticipate and account for this.
The Mafell is a much faster machine. Because it cuts across grain, I have had problems with it tearing the visible sidewall. If noe of your mortices have visible walls, it won't matter to you. Another aspect of cross vutting is the radius left at the bottom of the mortice. In order to take advantage of the speed of the Mafell, you usually have to over-plunge the depth significantly or shape the tenon end. If the dimension of your timber does not allow sufficient over-plunging, the machines speed is lost. It has also been my experience that Mafell's speed is only a factor if you have a lot of mortices laid out and on horses so you can just put your head down and go.
On a bright note, the cost of either machine might become somewhat irrelevent because you could sell either one for close to the purchase price when you finish your frame if desired.
Hope it all helps
Bob
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8575
08/31/04 03:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 79
Joel
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Bob...
Thank you for your reply.
If I go with a chain mortiser, I lean heavily towards the Makita becuase of the significant price advantage. The European tools sure are beautiful pieces...but my budget would be better off with less costly tools.
I'm in the dark about chisel mortisers. Are they available in the USA? Opinions of chisel vs. chain?
Joel
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8576
09/01/04 04:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 86
Bob Smith
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"I'm in the dark about chisel mortisers. Are they available in the USA? Opinions of chisel vs. chain?"
Makita and Ryobi used to make and market chisel mortisers in the US. But I haven't seen them for years. You might find a used one on Ebay or through advertising in Scantlings.
As to any opinion on their use, that depends on your use for them. A chisel mortiser is, in my experience, much slower at producing a standard mortise(say 6" by 1/12"). However, when you're done, there should be absolutely no chisel work needed. And as my earlier response comparing the flexibility of the Makita chain to the Mafell chain mortiser goes, you might find the chisel mortiser more flexible yet.
If speed is of absolutely no concern, and you can wait until you locate one, then try a chisel mortiser. I would think that like the other mortisers, there is a strong enough market that you could recoup most of your investment should you decide to sell it later.
Personally, I would not use a chisel mortiser to produce a timber frame; it just seemed too slow. But what you could do is buy a Makita chain mortiser (new or used), keep looking for a chisel mortiser, use them both for a while, and sell the one you like least.
On a side note, working recently in England, I saw many "mortices" (that's English for mortise) very quickly drilled and chopped with a corner chisel. It demonstrated how tooling is primarily about comfort levels and practice. This, of course, would be the cheapest approach.
On a side note to the side note, utilizing this method also seemed to requir smoking hand-rolled cigarettes.
Good Luck, Bob
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8577
09/01/04 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25
gil anderson
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Just wondering what the Brits use to drill the "mortice?" I have been using Forstner bits to pretty good effect. Also, I have heard that Hitachi or Riobi markets a chain mortiser in England. Has anyone seen these on this side of the pond?
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8578
09/01/04 09:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 79
Joel
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Bob...
Thank you for your reply. It's looking like the "rumor" the chisel mortisers are no longer sold in the USA might just be true.
Initially I was going to use a old fashion boring machine. Tried on at the Heartwood school...my arthitus will have no part of climbing up on the timber to sit on the machine...much less a shoulder with an old injury that really didn't take well to cranking the machine.
I'm going the way of "Time The Tooltime Toolman"...more power!
Joel
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8579
09/02/04 01:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 86
Bob Smith
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Riobi markets a chain mortiser in England.
Once again our free market economy, through tariffs and import fees has seen to it that this machine, along with most of the Makita catalogue, is no longer available.
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Re: Chisel Mortiser
#8580
09/02/04 01:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 86
Bob Smith
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"Initially I was going to use a old fashion boring machine. Tried on at the Heartwood school...my arthitus will have no part of climbing up on the timber to sit on the machine...much less a shoulder with an old injury that really didn't take well to cranking the machine."
With this in mind, using a standard drill may not work for you either. The torque delivered by an 1 1/2 drill bit can be significant.
From memory, I remember seeing a lot a single flute, double spur bits in England. It is my experience that Forstner bits clog and bind at mortise depths.
Bob
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