Are there any timber frame chisel mortisers sold in the USA? I know there used to be. Rumor they stopped selling them here. New rumor that they are once again available.

I'd gladly swap my rumors for your facts!

Thank uou,

Joel

Makita has both chain Mortisers and chisel Mortisers. Mafell has a chain Mortiser. I've used both. There are substantial differences in design and cost. check them out...

Jim...

Thank you for your reply. My delay in responding is due to a wicked head cold.

I can't seem to find any info on the Makita chisel mortiser. My web searches find chain mortisers and bench top chisel mortisers! Can you point me in the right direction?

I used a Mafel for a couple mortisers at Heartwood School. Very nice tool...but costs more than I should spend for a tool that will get ocassional use. One of the Heartwood instructors suggested that a chisel mortiser might be more useful for projects other than large timberframes than a chain mortiser.

BTW, I've heard comments that the Makita chain mortiser is not the smoothest in the world and wears out the user fast. Also heard it will kick back a moderate amount of time. How true is all these?

Joel

Hi there,

I have used both the Mafell and Makita mortisers extensively and they each have their own merits and disadvantages.

The Makita is significantly less expensive and comes with more chain thickness options. We use both a 3/4 and a 1 inch chain depending on the task.By cutting with the grain, the Makita leaves a cleaner sidewall cut. This helps with wedge, spline, and bare-face mortices. We are also able to rake the bottom of large mortices, ensuring a dimensionally accurate and smooth bottom. Deponding on the hook and sharpness of the blade, the Makita can indeed jump around a bit. With a little practice, you should be able to anticipate and account for this.

The Mafell is a much faster machine. Because it cuts across grain, I have had problems with it tearing the visible sidewall. If noe of your mortices have visible walls, it won't matter to you. Another aspect of cross vutting is the radius left at the bottom of the mortice. In order to take advantage of the speed of the Mafell, you usually have to over-plunge the depth significantly or shape the tenon end. If the dimension of your timber does not allow sufficient over-plunging, the machines speed is lost. It has also been my experience that Mafell's speed is only a factor if you have a lot of mortices laid out and on horses so you can just put your head down and go.

On a bright note, the cost of either machine might become somewhat irrelevent because you could sell either one for close to the purchase price when you finish your frame if desired.

Hope it all helps

Bob

Bob...

Thank you for your reply.

If I go with a chain mortiser, I lean heavily towards the Makita becuase of the significant price advantage. The European tools sure are beautiful pieces...but my budget would be better off with less costly tools.

I'm in the dark about chisel mortisers. Are they available in the USA? Opinions of chisel vs. chain?

Joel

"I'm in the dark about chisel mortisers. Are they available in the USA? Opinions of chisel vs. chain?"

Makita and Ryobi used to make and market chisel mortisers in the US. But I haven't seen them for years. You might find a used one on Ebay or through advertising in Scantlings.

As to any opinion on their use, that depends on your use for them. A chisel mortiser is, in my experience, much slower at producing a standard mortise(say 6" by 1/12"). However, when you're done, there should be absolutely no chisel work needed. And as my earlier response comparing the flexibility of the Makita chain to the Mafell chain mortiser goes, you might find the chisel mortiser more flexible yet.

If speed is of absolutely no concern, and you can wait until you locate one, then try a chisel mortiser. I would think that like the other mortisers, there is a strong enough market that you could recoup most of your investment should you decide to sell it later.

Personally, I would not use a chisel mortiser to produce a timber frame; it just seemed too slow. But what you could do is buy a Makita chain mortiser (new or used), keep looking for a chisel mortiser, use them both for a while, and sell the one you like least.

On a side note, working recently in England, I saw many "mortices" (that's English for mortise) very quickly drilled and chopped with a corner chisel. It demonstrated how tooling is primarily about comfort levels and practice. This, of course, would be the cheapest approach.

On a side note to the side note, utilizing this method also seemed to requir smoking hand-rolled cigarettes.

Good Luck,
Bob

Just wondering what the Brits use to drill the "mortice?" I have been using Forstner bits to pretty good effect. Also, I have heard that Hitachi or Riobi markets a chain mortiser in England. Has anyone seen these on this side of the pond?

Bob...

Thank you for your reply. It's looking like the "rumor" the chisel mortisers are no longer sold in the USA might just be true.

Initially I was going to use a old fashion boring machine. Tried on at the Heartwood school...my arthitus will have no part of climbing up on the timber to sit on the machine...much less a shoulder with an old injury that really didn't take well to cranking the machine.

I'm going the way of "Time The Tooltime Toolman"...more power!

Joel

Riobi markets a chain mortiser in England.

Once again our free market economy, through tariffs and import fees has seen to it that this machine, along with most of the Makita catalogue, is no longer available.

"Initially I was going to use a old fashion boring machine. Tried on at the Heartwood school...my arthitus will have no part of climbing up on the timber to sit on the machine...much less a shoulder with an old injury that really didn't take well to cranking the machine."

With this in mind, using a standard drill may not work for you either. The torque delivered by an 1 1/2 drill bit can be significant.

From memory, I remember seeing a lot a single flute, double spur bits in England. It is my experience that Forstner bits clog and bind at mortise depths.

Bob

Bob...

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

Good point about using a hanheld drill. Your right, I'm not a good candidate.

I'm starting to think the Makita chain mortiser makes the most sense for me. Less costly that the (beautiful) European tools, clamps to the work piece, flat mortiser bottom (I would of NEVER figured that one out until it was too late), and it's pretty fast.

BTW, I know a guy who didn't like the bouncing and vibration of the Makita, so he added hydralic cylinders. Using push botton switches mounted on the mortiser...one for "up", and one for "down". I'm not kidding...it's the slickest setup I've ever seen. The man is VERY intelligent and creative...makes me fell so dang humble.

Joel

Joel,

Now that you've decided on the Makita, you get to choose new or used. If looking for a used one, keep your eye here and in Scantlings. They show up every couple of months.

New you can find them at Timberwolf for 1395.00; at Baileys for 1295.00; or at Timberline Woodworkers Supply for 1250.00 through eBay. I've bought from all these guys and haven't had a problem.

Good Luck,
Bob

Bob --

I’ve been using my Ryobi DM 25-A Chisel Mortiser (now, no longer exported to America) on the Bennet Bridge restoration with great regularity, make your way up to a whole new latitude and we can compare notes.

http://www.maine.gov/mdot-stage/covered-bridges/bennett.php

Joel – I believe I’ve expressed my opinion on this forum before, that while I am pleased to own both varieties, were I asked to limit myself to one, I would opt for the far more versatile chain type.

Be your best.

This spring I bought a brand new Makita chisel mortiser from an import company in California. I don't have the name with me, as I am right now working in Antarctica. I had recieved a flier in the mail from them previously. I assumed they had got my name from the guild. So I do know that they can be found. I wish I could be more help. Maybe I could contact my family back home and find the address.

Scott...

I'd be VERY interested in the name of the company you bought the Makita chisel mortiser.

Would also appreciate your thoughts on the unit.

Thank you!

Joel

Will...

Being a newbie, I don't know what you mean by a chain mortiser being more versatile. Would greatly appreciate additional comments.

One person suggested that since my timber framing may be limited to 3 or so buildings, that a chisel mortiser would be of more value to me for things such as building decks, large indoor/outdoor furniture... What do you think?

Any comments on whether a chain or chisel mortiser would be easiest on a bad right should of a right handed person? I have reasonably good strenth, but can not raise the arm above shoulder height. Swinging a mallet vertically is a bit of a challenge. but I can do it in moderation. Horizontal swings are easier for me. Consider me determined and passonate about TF...I know I'm not the best candidate. But I'm going to do it anyway! (Hobby, not as a business.)

Joel

Joel

I would like to offer up my rating of the various mortise machines. I own a Makita chisel and a Mafell chain mortisers and have used frequently, but not recently, the Makita chain mortiser.

The versatility of the various machines is dependent on your needs or pocketbook in the case of the Mafell.

The Mafell is configured to the task and capabilities are limited to the configuration. Basically, you buy a motorhead that is fitted with a guide frame and with a bar and chain that will cut a specific mortise width with one plunge. So you must have issues of joinery vocablulary and mortise width solved before ordering the machine. The machine registers the cut placement with a fence, depth gauge and hand-eye contol. I can cut exactly square to the surface and to incised layout. End grain is smoothly cut with no need of end grain clean-up. Side grain needs texture from cutting and raking teeth removed, quick work for a heavy slick and paring chisel, in oak. Not a good option for someone starting out or someone with an experimental attitude. But a well configured Mafell is a simple place on the timber cutting champ.

The Makita chain mortiser is able to cut any mortise as wide as the chain or larger, of course the wider mortises require multi plunging. The machine has the character of a well designed gismo; clamps, advance levers, rotating head and stops are usually just as strong and as precise needed, sometimes I thought more robust base would refine results.

Both chain machine can be adapted to angled mortises needed in rafter to ridge or rafter to valley work. The chisel machine fails on easy adaptation to angled to surface work.

The chisel mortiser is very well adapted to work in complicated Japanese joinery requiring steps, keys, cogs and dovetails. It is the champ at controlled depth work. The Makita chisel machine has a much more robust base than the Makita chain mortiser, so there is a weight penalty but the operator is in effect using a drill press and is without doubt in a safer non-entangled working posture. Work progresses a slower more contolled fashion.

Finally I urge timbers be placed on short horses(knee high or lower) for chainsaw mortising. The design requires operator dominance. I believe step stools and chainsaw mortisers should not mix.

Roger...

Thank you so much for your reply. The Makita chain mortiser keeps emerging as perhaps a good choice for me.

Never tried a chain mortiser with a stool...but it sounds about as safe as using a gas powered pole saw standing on a step ladder with the spouse steadying the ladder. I'm not gonna say how I came to understand this concept!

Joel

I agree with Roger regarding the step stool, and also about the need to be more above the chain mortiser than for other tasks (both for saftey and fatigue). We found moving the timber to a lower level to be too time consuming, so I devised a platform to stand on while using the chain mortiser. It's just a slab of plywood attached to a frame made of 2x6, but it has a set of spring-loaded wheels just like those on a library stool. It's stable when you stand on it, but once you take your weight off of it, it can roll, so you can easily kick it over to your next destination.

Finally, regarding the outfit in San Fransico that's illegally importing Makita tools - bear in mind that you'll get no technical support, and have difficulty getting replacement parts. I'd be willing to bet that you have no warranty either. CB.

Didn't know the importing was not sanctioned by Makita....but I'm not surprised by your post. Sounds like it could be more headaches than it would be worth.

I worked for a large electronic test company for a few decades. Folks who bought the equipment on the "grey market" often regretted it.

Thank you so much for the heads up.

Joel

Due to problems getting U.L. listings Makita U.S.A. cannot import several great tools: chain mortisers, groove cutters, dovetail/housing machines, and finish circular saws. A few of these tools have buttons which when depressed keep the tool running, and some have 100v motors. The best bet for obtaining these tools is to connect with someone in the Japanese carpentry circle.
Good Luck

Sorry, I ment to say chisel mortiser, not chain

Joel, A good place to look for tools such as these is WWW.Timberwolftools.com. Hope this helps. George

This may be old news,but I'm posting it anyway. I apprenticing a few years ago (Timber Framing) and where using a 35mm Makita chisel mortiser. It clamps right to the timber. It uses these realy accurate dials to put the chisel exactly where you want it.
I will contact the old crew (if I can)to see how they orderd them. I know they had to get them strait from Japan, and had to have the power converted to U.S.110 bla bla bla.(I'm not an electrician).It cost around $2500.00 in 1999. I do know it is one very slick machine.
I will try to get ahold of those guys this week and let you know the details (cross your fingers).

Quiethouse...

Thank you for thinking of me!

I bought a used Makita chisel mortiser. It sounds like it is a bit different than the one you described. It does not have dials for placing the chisel. I'd be very interested in what you find out.

Joel