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Re: Japanes pull saws #9444 01/28/07 08:04 AM
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Griffon Offline OP
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Thats clever; same saw, different teeth!

Since Dave remarked that he would not use a pull saw for larger timbers, could you tell us the cross section of the timber in the photo, Raphael? Would you have completed quicker with a conventional saw (but less neatly)?


Time is an ocean but it stops at the shore Bob Dylan
Re: Japanes pull saws #9445 01/28/07 01:00 PM
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E.H.Carpentry Offline
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I did not cut this oak beam but I think I can speak for everbody that has used push and pull saws. Yes, you can cut this with a conventional saw but it will take you longer and it will not be as clean a cut. The pull saws have a much thinner blade then push saws and therefore are removing less material ( in width but more in depth) then push saws resulting in less effort for the user.
The harder/denser the wood the harder it is to cut. Try cutting through a knot ( not fun either way) with a push and then with a pull saw. You will notice the difference right away.

My suggestion: Get one of those pull saws and I am sure you will not regret you did.

Re: Japanes pull saws #9446 01/28/07 04:12 PM
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Raphael D. Swift Offline
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That's a 5x7, the catalog lists the saw as being for use on timbers up to 6" x 8". The only saws I have that cut faster plug into the wall or burn gasoline.

I've used it on 8"x 9" timbers semi-effectively but it's really slowing down at that point due to shortened strokes and requires a bit of over stearing (in rips) to keep any mid-kerf deflection from crossing the line.

One benefit nobody has mentioned is the position of the timber is higher while cutting so you can build your saw horses up at a comfortable height for layout.


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Re: Japanes pull saws #9447 01/28/07 06:02 PM
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Tom Cundiff Offline
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That's interesting, Raphael. All the old Japanese wood block prints show them working on blocks or low tressels and holding the work down with their feet. Working like this gives you a tremendous amount of leverage. Staying on top of the work lets you see what you are doing on both sides of the cut. Low tressels are much safer for using 16"circular saws and morticers as well. It has always bothered me to see people standing on milk crates to run large power tools. Tall saw horses would have to be my number one pet peeve, but that's just me.
No more milk crates for me, my wife got me two of these for Christmas. Tom


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Re: Japanes pull saws #9448 01/28/07 10:27 PM
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Dave Shepard Offline
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While the jury seems to be voting for the Japanese saws, I still have to go with my Stanley Sharptooth for speed. It has the same tooth pattern as the Japanese saws, and in my experience cuts much faster. It will also rip with ease. JMO though.

Dave


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Re: Japanes pull saws #9449 01/28/07 11:17 PM
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Starting a cut is also easier since you are pulling the saw towards you. So it is less likely that it will jump away from your cut line like push saws tend to do.
There are frame saws with blades (conventional or Japanese) up to 700mm long. That will allow you to pretty much cut any size beam you will ever come across.

Re: Japanes pull saws #9450 01/29/07 03:10 AM
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Tom Cundiff Offline
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Sorry Griffon I got off topic. Hopefully this will be more helpful. The 3 on the bottom have replacable blades. the 3 on top have to be sharpened. The wooden handles on the Japanese saws are not original, they usually come with handles like the one on the bottom. The timber saw on top is very agressive, too much for dry hardwoods. Tom

The saws are from top to bottom,
1. Japanese timber saw, 420mm,7-4 tpi.
2. Stanley Shark-tooth, 26" 8 tpi.
3. Japanese Ryoba saw, 300mm 9 tpi. crosscut/ 5tpi rip.
4. Japanese Ryoba saw, 270mm
5. Tajima folding G-saw, 240mm
6. Japanese Kataba saw (fine teeth) 240mm


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Re: Japanes pull saws #9451 01/29/07 06:34 AM
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Raphael D. Swift Offline
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I pull the saw straight into my center of mass (if possible), so if the timber is up the pull is down into the saw horse, similiar leverage advantage without getting tread marks on the timber. I'm always cutting the top and the near side so my view is better for having the timber closer to my face

I certainly won't be abandoning my lower saw horses when it comes to playing with boring machines and circular saws.


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Re: Japanes pull saws #9452 01/30/07 08:27 AM
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Griffon Offline OP
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In the face of such comprehensive and conclusive evidence I shall forthwith place an order. Supply in France is not quite so easy and as I've spent some time searching it all out I'll share the results for the benefit of other french researchers ( ??! ).

These three all do scies japonaises:

http://www.ftfi.fr/
http://www.hmdiffusion.com/
http://www.bordet.fr/pages/

The latter offer them in longer lengths (to 300mm) and also supply some Silky saws. These latter are also available from elagage (tree-surgery) suppliers:

http://www.elagage-hevea.com/
http://www.arbres-online.com/

Silky saws are either curved or straight. Certain of the models which Tom reccomends are not offered here, but the Gomtaro is straight and available from the last named supplier.

Again, thankyou all for all info. smile


Time is an ocean but it stops at the shore Bob Dylan
Re: Japanes pull saws #9453 01/30/07 01:02 PM
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Griffon,

if you are ordering online anyway you might want to see if the saw/s you are looking for is available in one of the neighboring countries. I bet they will ship Europe wide. Make sure to buy a few extra blades. Some of them tend to break very easily since they are thinner and harder then conventional saw blades.

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