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Re: hollow grind vs. flat grind #9501 02/18/07 04:54 PM
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E.H.Carpentry Offline
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Jed,

no offense, but I have not come across anybody who would not stick with a Tormek after trying it. First of all it has low RPm and is watercooled. The chisel angle is adjusted easily and it does grind quickly even with huge knicks in the chisel. The leather wheel and honing paste makes the chisel a weapon.
Even thinking about using a grinding wheel with 3600 RPM!!!!!!!(scary) to sharpen a chisel gives me the creeps. And trying to free hand grind a good angle on a chisel is impossible. It comes out differently each time especially when you have to take it off to dip in water and then grind some more.

But if you are happy with the results......

Re: hollow grind vs. flat grind #9502 02/19/07 02:56 AM
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Ron Mansour Offline OP
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thanks to everyone for all the input, it's greatly appreciated, was checking out the Tormek in one of my catalogs, and came across the Jet low rpm, 10" wet grind sharpener, seems identical to the Tormek, but $100 cheaper. Any opinions on the Jet?

Re: hollow grind vs. flat grind #9503 02/20/07 10:58 PM
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Jed Eichel Offline
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Dear E.H. Carpentry,

Yeah, it sounds kind of horrifying...like, what is this guy going to suggest next, using a right angle grinder?
A couple of things: the cool grind wheel is key. Norton makes it, and others make similar ones. They are made of an abrasive with a much more frangible bond so that, like the water stones, they wear faster. The trade off is that they do not heat up nearly as fast, nor do they heat your tool up as fast. Care and attention are still needed during the process.
Second, when I said "freehand" I meant only that I don't place the tool in a clamping guide such as the one that comes with the Tormek and most dedicated honing wheels. I do have a Veritas tool rest mounted in front of the wheel. I set it to about thirty degrees relative to the wheel surface and use it to guide my blade as I grind. By holding the blade firmly in my grip and using the tool rest as a reference, I'm able to maintain a fairly consistent angle. In addition, I also grind the meat out from the middle of the existing bevel, so there remains a mirror surface front and back. This way, the bevel angle is never affected, and there is an additional safeguard against accidentally burning the steel.
The Veritas tool rest I purchased came with a clamping tool guide that will precisely set the blade square to the wheel and ensures a ground edge that any machinist would be proud of. I can use it if I need to totally regrind a bevel on one of my blades. In most cases, I fail to see the need for that kind of precision.
I am somewhat uptight about lapping my tools, and I've been teased by others about the attention I pay to my tools' edges. I enjoy the feel of a well tuned blade, so I don't mind the heckling. In the end, of course, there is a trade off. We are making a living, after all. When I purchased my wheels, stones, and the rest, I also bought a veritas sharpening guide for my stones. It is effective, but again, slow as all get out. I finally donated it to a local craft school where it would get used more often. I found it invaluable during the learning phase of sharpening, but quickly decided that it wasn't worth the extra time. Learning to feel when that bevel edge is registering on the stone is worth the effort.
As far as the Tormek goes, if someone wanted to buy me one, I'd kiss them. But by Jove, they're expensive. And when I say I've used them extensively, I mean that. They are glacially slow. I would ask the person who bought it for me if they'd gotten me a copy of Les Miserables on tape so that I could while away the time. Holy cats!
In closing, I WOULD invest in a high quality, 1800 RPM grinder if I had the dough and could find one. Mount a hard felt wheel on one side and buy a stick of grinding compound or a tube of the paste to dress it, your choice.
Grinding highly expensive tools on a high speed wheel is possible and comes reccomended by others wiser than me. Just give it some practice, and you will grow to appreciate it.

Cheers!

Re: hollow grind vs. flat grind #9504 02/21/07 06:28 PM
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brad_bb Offline
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I'm not an experienced chisel sharpener yet, but I do have some other experience. I took a class to learn how to best sharpen and care for my chef's knives. It was a valuable lesson. Knives should never get dull. With simple regular maintenance and care, they should stay very sharp for a very long time. I've learned how to properly use steels. Once you have a proper sharp edge on the knife, just a couple swipes after each use will maintain that sharp edge. I use a good quality fine knife steel (splined hard steel shaft) and only make two or three passes after each use or every other use and they've stayed razor sharp for 2 years now, and I use them quite a bit. It's also important to keep them clean especially when cutting tomatoes and other acidic foods. I think the same will apply to chisel sharpeing. Like a knife, you probably shouldn't use one until it's dull, but rather do quick regular maintenance to keep your edge.
My uncle is retired and works part time at a woodworking place called Rockler. They just had a demo for all the employees for shapening and they used my newly ebay purchased dull 2" framing chisel to demonstrate. I couldn't be there, but he told me that it was recommended to use a kit that had flat glass and paper, and a holding fixture for the chisel. I will find out more info soon.

Re: hollow grind vs. flat grind #9505 02/21/07 11:39 PM
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Jim Rogers Online Confused
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Lots of guys use a strop with stropping compound to keep there chisels sharp. Touching up once or twice a day, or when needed, helps to keep the chisel sharp while it's being used.
My strop is a piece of leather mounted on a small piece of wood so it's firm and straight. When loaded with compound it only takes a few strokes and it's all set.

Jim Rogers


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Re: hollow grind vs. flat grind #9506 02/22/07 12:27 PM
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Mark Davidson Offline
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when I first read this post I thought we were talking about the back of the chisel, which I do like to hollow grind(with an angle grinder, horror of horrors).... I use the angle grinder(and a bucket of water) for most of my rough work like reshaping an old tool or mowing down the "back" of the bevel when there is a nick in the edge. After that I have an old water stone which I have worn down to around 18" in diameter. It turns quite slow and I keep water dripping on it so no trouble with heat. And after that I have sandpaper and glass and also waterstones. I always finish with the waterstones, hopefully with a hollow bevel and a hollow back.

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