Thanks for your help and insight with the issue of acquiring lengthy timber. Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread as well. Will, I definitely really relate to your ideas in relation to consumers being so far removed from the nature of products, in all ways. I think you are onto something good when you talk of developing community and understanding between all of the different stages of a project. Around here in my restaurant we have been doing something similar from the local farms to the kitchen and on to the consumers. I would like to develop this in all aspects including my work in timber framing. I think to get some side work in logging and millng to further my understanding and connections to the whole of the trade. Good ideas! thanks again tb