Is a slot like that vs. a partial mortise better suited to thicker timbers, though? My only concern is I'd be boxing myself into using fatter sticks than really needed.
Sizing (typically) in most of these "pass through bracing styles" is proportional to one another so a post can be very small. I have seen examples where there may be more post in a small format (75mm), and the nuki are a 1/3 corresponding element that passes in the middle...
...While a system like you've described can be more flexible, when it does come time for it to load up, it is inherently less efficient than a cross brace...
I would agree...perhaps...in some "borrowed" or modern "bastardized" examples, yet not so much in the traditional formats...
I would also suggest that many (most??) folks that I have conversations with about these systems (and their "concepts/ideas" about what they "think" may be taking place) have never studied them "in country" or ever designed/built with examples of them...Until that is achieve, it really is not tangibly possible to give a complete contextual understanding of them...
It took a very long time and a great deal of academic and in situ examination of these systems (including building examples of them or testing them to failure) to get a reasonable understanding of just what does take place in crushing/binding load situations...comparably that is to other system. As described earlier, Asian and Japan in particular has been afforded a biome and climate type that is very unique. Not only heavy snows, and severe tsunami/wind events but the ever pressing seismic loads the architecture has to endure regularly...
...Definitely two different schools of thought, but I'm not convinced they are mutually exclusive...
Fully agreed, and I think I reflected that in the last post, as in some areas of Asian and the Middle East you will typically find both systems working in context with each other very well. We have now lost the oldest examples of some of these in Syria to the devastation of war. There "was" a structure there just in its final examinations indicating an age of over 7000 years for portions of the structure...Regrettably, it and the examples around in no longer exist for further study or examination...
If we move into examples like
Dhajji Dewari and
kath khuni ...as just to contrasting regional styles not that far removed from one another...we can see different solutions for building while using similar resources in different context...One that heavily relies on an oblique system and massive weight and the other only horizontal bracing and massive weight...While others of this region will employ a concert of both...
As mention, some of the Norther Japanese systems (et al for the Himalayas) employ both systems also...as you say...a "fall back." Yet most of what I often read in discussion like this are "theoretical examinations" and/or just loose academic conversation...One most go there and/or build with these system to fully understand them past just intensive literary research...
...Probably getting into really complicated dynamics issues if we think too hard about this, with no easy one-size answers...
On that point...we are in full agreeance...
As for whether "two-floor systems" can rely on these system...the answer would be yes...but again not out of context from a very well defined system of design...The oldest "well documented" timber frames in the world are in Japan, and these are often Buddhist temples and Sutra repositories that may be as tall as six stores...or again...like the Kath Khuni of the Himachal Pradesh averaging 4 to 8 stories in some examples...
So I suppose the lesson might be to use rigid joints where you expect the least movement (vertical-axis shear) and allow for more flexibility elsewhere.
Very well stated...and getting to the heart of many of these vernacular forms...Massive rigid roof systems with huge mass, and then central column along with flexible torsional resistance systems in other areas...And/or corbelled/bracketed...which can be looked at as a "flexible oblique system" such as most
Dou Gong bracketing system. ...For whatever reason, I'm thinking that the tallest structures in classic Japan tended to be inns/tenements, which were quite tall (relatively speaking); what styles might they have tended toward?
I am not sure that is really accurate...??
Most "merchant or Samurai" class architecture is single story...While Minka structures with there "Gossho" (aka "Praying Hands") style steeply pitched roofs may be called 5 to 6 stories counting there attic/upstairs areas...When you move out of Japan and deeper into southern Asia and the Middle East...the styles get even more numerous...
Many systems (even those shared in this conversation) are multiple stories tall and forming some of the tallest in the world...Many of the Asian Castles (like those in Europe) are built of massive stone foundations and then huge fortress timber frames above...Then we have Kath Khuni, Sutra Pagodas all over Asia, many 3 and 6 story timber frames throughout very tectonically active regions of the middle east such as Kashmir's Taaq, and on into Bhatar, Leepa style timber frames etc...many 3 stories or more...
Timber-framed houses in the Hımış, Bağdadi styles (et al) form 80% of the total number of houses registered as cultural objects in Turkey. Being located on the Mediterranean-Himalayan seismic belt. These structures are greatly affected by earthquakes...and many of these domestic homes are over over 4 stories in height
I can more than understand the challenges with "languages" I struggle enough with just my own
and the few others I am slowly learning...For a house build...just ask others that have their nose stuck in all the different joint styles and ask good questions like you have been...
