Hello Jon, et al,

I apologize ahead of time for all the "quote commenting" but it really is the only way I personally can keep track of all the questions and/or thoughts I have on this very interesting topic that you have brought to us all...Thank you for that!!!

There has been, for sure, some very interesting shared views and you are giving us a well reflected perspective of timber framing from another region of the world with both a healthy contemporary application of the craft...as well as...it's rich historical timber framing past...Awesome!!!



Is this a contemporary perspective and/or historical?



In regards to both the smaller size of timber (much more in the Asian size ranges) and to the practice of boring before the timber is mortised...Is this restricted to a contemporary practice or do you have citable documentation that suggest the "pre-boring" and smaller timbers was also an historical "standard practice" for you region?



This is a very interesting observation. I have never read or heard of this being an issue within other cultures that often employ timbers of smaller dimensions (i.e. 100mm to 150mm square being common) and their related smaller tenons (i.e. 15mm to 25mm.) 30mm is excessively large (comparatively) for such small timbers. My simple grasp of timber engineering and years of experience within the craft would greatly lean me toward considerable concern for such a large tenon in such small timbers.

In Asian, where timbers of smaller dimension are very common both historically and in the contemporary, tenons don't exceed (as I have seen, heard or read about them) more than 25mm to 30mm and that is in the 150mm size timbers. In the "folk styles" like Minka where members are larger, or in the Hanok of Korean we can see 30mm and greater sized tenon or doubling of tenon. In the 75mm to 100mm size timbers they are 15mm and 20mm...This is true in the Zafimaniry (et al) African traditions as well, which tend to use smaller hardwood timbers. I would also note that both cultures also employ "double tenoning" and/or toggling on a fairly common basis as well from what I have knowledge of...

Why do you believe that the French region of Western Europe developed such practices and beliefs regarding the 30mm tenon?



I would have to challenge that perspective almost completely...

Not only from a contemporary North American perspective, but additionally an historical one as well. Both here and internationally...It is very much "taught," that you bore a pin, or peg hole...after the mortise is cut...not before...in my experience, and knowledge of the craft.

Your shared "pre-boring" is not something I have ever seen, read or experienced before this conversation, and does seem to be a contemporary manifestation within the craft of your region.

Not in any of the timber framing traditions that I am aware of or versed in...Africa, Middle Eastern, Most of Europe, or Asia is "pre-boring" commonly practiced. If at all? That is not to imply that the practice doesn't exist in some other timber framing cultures? If others know of any...I would love to read or hear about it.




Jon, when you describe "older" could you give a range? Are we speaking of 19th, 18th, or 17th centuries?

Thanks again for a starting a great topic!!!

Regards,

j