Hey Jon, et al,
Thanks so much for responding so thoroughly. It is really appreciated!!!
I have always been fascinated with the different orgin stories of this craft, and with the more cultures I got to see and experience the more fascinated I was by both the similarities, as well as the great diversity...
Historically I'm fairly certain that the boring machine never made it to France....
That is very interesting to learn...With France being so close to the Germany and other compulsively inventive cultures, I wondered why the IR (industrial revolution) had such different reactions and effects in different countries.
Perhaps because of skill sets and/or normative cultures of different traditions is perhaps why it didn't take more of a hold. I also suspect when you have such old and well establish systems, that changing and/or adapting to "foreign" modalities is resisted, just as the Amish (et al) do today. Not to mention that if a culture has an acient traditional system that works just fine for them, there is little reason to undo that and/or try to change it...Following the logic most common:
"...if it ain't broke...do fix it..."
I have never had a chance to speak with anyone that collects the many different European timber framing tools from the different time periods...Perhaps there is a boring machine out there...Swiss or German???
I can't be certain, and it is possible that this is a contemporary practice....I will ask around, I'll hopefully be seeing François Calame of Charpentiers sans Frontières in few weeks and if anyone knows he will!
Thanks for doing that. This is but a small facet of our craft collectively but the subtle difference, even within regions of a given tradition, are often very unique and shed a deeper understanding of how a certain modality evolved.
I was initially horrified. But I've since seen frames lifted after assembly on the ground (the circumstances in which tenons suffer the most) and while they creak, they've not blown out. And this in "commercial pine"... not even in oak.
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In retrospect from what I shared in my last post...I think what I wrote and was thinking (to late after a day of work...LOL) was simply silly...I do have some understanding of timber engineering, as many of us do after decades of practice...However, it is (as stated)...simple.
The Japanese work greatly in Cypress...a very weak species...There PE have set new standards in understanding for horizontal brace systems and complex joinery as it is affected by continues punishment by tectonic event. Many of the Asian frames employ very small tenons and timbers. The Korean use almost exclusively Pine species...The Chinese the same for the most part...with the oldest documented timber frames in the world being found there...
I also realized after posting that the French have one of the riches timber framing cultures of Europe...AND!!!...you do have PE of your own that in the modern context would have something to say about the 30mm tenon and the ~ 20mm cheak around the mortise if it was of some significant danger of catastrophic failure...
Bottom line...there is more to this subject you have brought us! Since these buildings are being built in the contemporary, and I would assume at least some are stamped by a PE of French orgin, there must be some consideration of these dimensions that are out of the contextual understanding as Timberwrights here North America would undoubtedly understand them normally...So there is more to learn hear for sure...
This is nothing but supposition on my part, but...
France has a very strange culture which is both left-leaning (socialist) and very (small c) conservative. I do think that this atmosphere led to the widespread teaching of a traditional technique (trait de charpente) and also, a strong conservation of tradition. But carpentry here (in the sense of the compagnons, and more generally the "corps de métier") has also adapted itself well to industrial developments. Delataille's books on trait include a series of pictures of truss styles for large buildings which often rely heavily on bolted joints. Rather than splintering into "traditional" carpentry (pegged) and industrial "bolted throughout" styles of construction, the whole world of carpentry assimilated the new techniques. Most "traditional" house roof frames now sport a mixture of bolted and pegged joints.
This anecdote shows an eagerness to adopt and adapt to industrial processes and (for me at least) provides a parallel to the adoption of square rule in the US. The use of a consistant tenon size in all timbers and a rule of "always 30mm" simplifies the design and construction process. It allows for faster throughput simply because fewer questions need asking. It's semi-industrial in that by accepting to be less dependant on the arcane knowledge and experience of the "ancestors", it enables the contemporary artisans to remain relevant and competitive.
But this is just my point of view....
Seems like a logical conclusion...
Better than others I have read or heard from the "outsider" perspective.
It will be interesting to see what more you learn (and can share) on this and related topics as it applies to our craft of timber framing from the different cultural contexts as it applies to modalites of means, methods and materials...
I phrased that badly. I meant to suggest that the reasoning is not taught... clearly the practice is. What I find interesting is that I was taught this practice with an explanation of why it "should" be used. This does not appear to be the case in the US. I can't speak to Asian timber framing as I have no knowledge at all in that area...
Now I understand better where you came from in your thinking regarding this...Thanks..
The oldest I've worked on that was reliably dateable was 18th century, dating in fact from the period of the revolution (Which might have explained the change in framing style of the roof which felt like the entire team had changed halfway through construction!). I've also worked on vernacular buildings which may have been even older but I've no way of being certain....
And these had the 30mm tenon and/or similar mortise/tenon ratio?
Then that would validate your perspectives above and speak to the reason it has evolved the way it has...
Thanks again Jon for this thread post or yours...
I have learned and gotten to think more deeply about tenon/mortise ratios as it applies to cultural modalities...than I would have had a chance to without it...
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Yes, every boring machine...I have ever seen...is out of the USA.
Thanks Cecile for that confirmation.
Do you know what is found elsewhere in Europe? Do you know if the Swiss or German had manufacture a boring machine of their own?
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Lets remember when the boring machine came out the US was in full on timber frame production mode. The rest of the world was already developed. We needed to build bridges, barns, churches, town halls, grange halls, and the boring machine was put to use. For the rest of the world a few repairs here and there, a T-auger was fine, no rush, same old thing we always used. In reality the boring machine was short lived, and the craft nearly died out with the innovation of stick building and balloon framing. It is no wonder France, Netherland along with other places afar didn't take up that boring old machine.
I agree that North America was at "full steam" in building the infrastructure it needed to accommodate its European immigrants...Of that there is know doubt...
I don't believe I could agree that the rest of the world was "already developed." Not by a long shot...
European culture was hell bent on invading everywhere between 1350 and 1850...This invasive expansion had all manner of ramification (bad and good.) I would add that timber framing was going on from Europe and Africa to the Middle East and accross all of Asia...All at the same time (and for millenia) that Europeans in North America were developing their own styles..Not discounting the many indigenous styles already present here and being practiced.
Culturally (just as one of countless examples) the Chinese did and still have some of the oldest and most enduring timber framing cultures in the world...some based on an 18 year rotational and/or addition expansion of existing structures of villages. This was and is so prevalent in some region that to the point the species of Pine tree they employ is called the "eighteen year pine." It is planted as a dowry for the children of villages for the day marriage. This Southern Chinese folk culture has been timber framing nonstop prolifically for over 4000 plus years and many of the joinery systems developed there are what evolved to build the Forbidden City...That is one of too many examples to list...
I think the primary reason the IR didn't effect the rest of the timber framing world had to do more with acient and established systems of the craft. Ours (immigrant European to North America) was an amalgamation of so many different styles and modalities of design and construction...from English and French to German, Dutch, Nordic and splattered here and there with indigenous understandings as well...and open to innovation as they perceived it...
When speaking strictly of volume of timber frames produced...historically I doubt we even came close to the volume being produced in Europe, Middle East, Africa and Asia...when it's all taken into complete context...Even today we are still greatly out produced comparatively...Not that this is a terribly important point...just an interesting one to ponder...
