Hi Tim!

Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
...So there is much to be read between the lines of my post...


I do sincerely apologize to any folks like you that find my post "too wordy."

It is a habit from military reporting, then years of teaching and probably also reminiscent of the science and clinical work I did...Where if it isn't written...it didn't happen, and what is written needs to leave no room for confusion or interpretation...

I must also admit fully that I am attroshis at "reading between the lines." I think I probably am conditioned not to because it leads to assumptions...Not a habit I like promoting...

Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
...As you say, some Asian cultures have been actively framing for over 4000 years into today. Did they ever design a boring machine? Not that we know of...


Actually they (Chinese) did...as you must remember the invented Gunpowder, the Printed word (and press), compartmentalize pelagic vessels before Europe even left the mediterranean..and many other asstounding innovations of acient technology. Then they really did just "stop."...???...

but nothing like the much more mechanical versions we know as a "boring machines." They had/have two primary large scale versions, one very similar to the form the Egyptians and African cultures employ called (translated loosely) as "swing drill." Mainly used in small scale woodworking but sometime applied to certain timber frame traditions as well...

They also have the ubiquitous "T Auger" which is still rather popular to the point that they will take "Owl Bits" from Japan and weld a pipe section to the end to insert a handle...There actually pretty darn quick with these from what I have seen and accurate as well...Not commonly used in timber framing though...or, not that I know of?

I would also point out there was simply no need or advantage to them to have developed a more mechanical version of boring than they already sometimes employed for there different forms of timber farming...As with many other timber framing cultures. There system has been developed over millenia and as such has an efficiency of application and speed overall that wouldn't really benefit from and/or require a boring machine as we know it...No advantage


Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
...The rush to build timber frames was dying out here by the late 1890's and all but forgotten very soon after. It took nearly 100 more years to dig it out of the dust bin and brush it off(timber framing). The boring machine as we know it only had a life of around 50 years. ...


I don't believe I can agree with that statement...???

First the Boring Machine came about around 1830's as I know it and was well applied all the way up to the 1940's. This information and testament to application is not commonly known nor well recorded nor common knowledge in certain circles, while in others it is...That is well over 100 years and in some instances never died out completely in some boat yards, barnwrighting groups, etc.

The Old Amish/Mennonite/River Baptist Barnwrights I apprenticed to for over ten years in the 70's had at least a half dozen of these and many T Augers, Brace, Gimlet, etc...all very much used regularly...

As to the craft of timber framing "dying out" I have always considered that a subjective perspective based more on personal understanding and regional variations...In many areas it well may have "died out" in others it was a short hiatus at worst and why the craft survived as well as it did...My personal exposure being both from the Japanese and then the Amish and related cultural groups never saw a lose of it at all. With some families in Japan having a direct and unbroken linage that goes back over 1000 years, and they have strong ties here in North America...As do many of the Swiss in some areas...

Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
There must be a lull in timber framing in the Asian world, did it coincide with what we saw here in the States?


I think we can agree that the "folf arts" in general have had a shift in popularity in many regions of the world, but in others it simply is a way of life and hasn't changed for millenia...or ever stopped at all...Not sure why you would state "there must be a lull?"

One of the reasons I specialize in and find fascination with "folk styles" of timber framing is its age and enduring popularity. These are simply the oldest forms and the most enduring still today...No matter the culture of which we speak...

Asian has turned very much to the modern world and the West for many of its current inspirations both technologically and culturally as well...

Nevertheless, this is very much an urban phenomenon...In the rural countryside timber framing is the only way people get to have a house...There isn't another choice and/or they don't choose to live in a more contemporary format...This is actually growing in popularity with a "grass roots" insurgency in many regions...This includes the architecture of both homes and bridges...

It could also explain why our craft is exploding on a global scale...Good for us!!!


Originally Posted By: TIMBEAL
...I agree with your last statement. The US is a very young country, and as such it has no where near the building history of Europe and Asia. But we were industrious and built sharply with an innovative approach, which is why timber framing almost died.


We are young nation comparatively in many respects...and...the world leaders in being "industrious." I think personally we still are the leaders of inventiveness if averages are looked at but I'm biased toward that perspective as an American...

I think the IR did us a great disservice in many ways with the attempt at killing skilled labor and craftsmanship...I don't think timber framing ever came close to dying out at all...(a common held perception?) Was it uncommon for about 40 years...yes, I personally think that is true. I think the dying out prespection is real...of that there is no doubt...but...in actuality, there was just too many still using it regularly right up into the 1970's for it to ever come close to "dying out," we have only seen a greater and greater resurgence with each passing decade.

I would also share, as a point of interest, that there is clear evidence in pockets around the nation that this craft had its little nucleuses always running virtually unbroken in many ways. From Tide Water Capes in Delaware and Maryland region, to the Barnwrights (rare but working) all the way to Balloon Frames in the Boston area that employ joinery instead of hardware to form the frames...A timber framed "stick building" for lack of a better description...LOL

Thanks for the discussion Tim and your perspectives...Its always a pleasure to think about these things!

Regards,

j