Timber Framers Guild Forums General General Forum Questions tenon shoulders

how do you folks clean up the shoulders of your tenons? is there a good working process for going at them with the framing chisel? or do you use a slick? is there an elegant way of doing this? any experiences with shoulder planes? many thanks!

I saw my shoulders to the line. It took a little practice, but you don't have to pare any end grain once you get proficient. I've pared with a sharp chisel and a low-angle block plane. Neither is much fun.

I usually saw close to the line, and then pare to the line with a chisel.

I'm using a hand saw, forgot to mention that.

Or if you are double cutting the joint and the double cut is not too fat you can pare the waste off. In this case the double cut may be an odd shape as it is scribed to the irregular timber and may not be easily cut with any saw. I don't like to pare heavy lines so I would use a hand saw as much as possible and not touch the chisel and mallet. That is not to say I won't on occasion touch up a shoulder with the slick or chisel, or what ever is handy.

I just had the opportunity to double cut at the geometric workshop for the first time. I can see its usefulness.

Tim

I was looking at the Dutch barn frame in the shop at work yesterday. The shoulders were pared with a chisel. This is a scribe rule barn, and I'm guessing double-cut. The frame is stacked up, so it's hard to investigate fully. I'm trying to find some two-foot marks, or other indications of double-cutting. Tim, you are pretty good with an axe, you could probably chop to the line.

Dave, you should see a double cut line just off the shoulder on the tenon, if they were double cut. I am not sure it could be done without the tell tale interruption at the double cut. Is it visible?

It is a tough one, cutting a shoulder with an axe, thats all I'll say.

Tim

what those guys said. i like to try to make it happen with the cut of a saw. blades and endgrain me no likey.

Whats a double cut?

These guys are using sharp handsaws. I have a Stanley Sharptooth saw. It is important to ask whether you know the proper technique for using a hand saw. I didn't until this year. There is a definitive technique for cutting square and straight with a hand saw. Start by laying out your cut lines, either in pencil, or scoring. The saying is, you never want to cut what you can't see. So you should never be cutting blind. To cut the shoulder, use your saw to start your saw groove on top. This is pretty easy because it's on top and you can see the whole top cut line easily. Saw a 1/16th to 1/8th inch groove. Now get up on top of your piece and saw the same type of groove on one of the vertical sides, so you can see the whole line very well, making sure not to cut past the your marked lines. Once you've established this "guide groove", You can begin sawing on the of the top corners, using the grooves as your saw guide. Saw until you connect the lower corner of the side with the nearest corner of the top. Then move to the other side of the timber, so you can stand over the next line to cut and saw much the same as the other side, connecting the far corners. Once you've done this you can place your saw in the top groove and saw with the saw teeth level until you reach the required depth.

The basic double cut goes something like this.

The mortices are first cut with no mockup of the other members, these are gained off the floor or some other such predetermined points.

The tenons are then cut on the post, for example, an inch or less short of their full length.

They are them inserted into the mortice, things are leveled and trued by the means at hand.

A set of dividers are set to a consistent distance, what ever the number the tenon was cut short at. All the posts are scribed to this setting, pulled apart and sawn and chiseled to the scribe, even the wayne, which is a good example of where it would be hard to saw such parts.

They are reinstalled and pricked for the pins, pulled apart enough to bore the pin hole and reassembled and realigned and the foot of the post is marked out and cut. No 2' mark used.

Feel free to correct this, for my clarity and others.

Tim